marcus

I recently switched from 8 -> 9 and can't help but notice that moving the focus circle in the plex is much laggier than it is in 8. There's a 200-700ms lag before the focus indicator begins to move from one thought to another. 

Looking at Activity Monitor I see that the resting CPU usage with The Brain active, but not being used, is ~11%, then when I move focus, it jumps to ~30-50%. Both seem too high and the performance while moving around the plex is distractingly slow.

I'm using High Sierra on a 2016 MBP.

Quote
mcaton
Marcus,

Thank you for posting.  Can you please replicate these issues and then send a copy of your output.log file into support@thebrain.com for further review?  You can reference this forum thread (9459333).  To access the Output.log file, just click on Help > Open Log Directory in TheBrain.  

Thank you,
Matt 
Quote
marcus

It's not a specific issue that would show up in an output log. Using the arrow keys to move between nodes is simply much slower in v9 than it was in v8. I'm certain this is the case on OS X, it may be the same other platforms, I'm not sure.

Repro steps:
1. Create a brain with 3 thoughts - one parent and two children.

2. Use the right and left arrow keys to navigate quickly back and forth between the two children.

Expected:
The focus ring keeps up w/ key presses.

Actual:
The focus circle lags and can't keep up the key presses.

Quote
Harlan
Hi Marcus,

I'm not seeing an issue on macOS. I've tested with V9 and V8 side by side for comparison purposes and can't see a difference.

The speed of the animation of the keyboard focus is affected by the animation settings in preferences. Try adjusting that and see if that helps.

With regard to the CPU, it is normal for it to increase when the plex is animating.
Regards,
-Harlan
Quote
marcus
Hi Harlan, I've set the animation speed to just under the fastest possible and taken a video comparing the two - v8 is on the left, v9 is on the right. The Brain 8 keeps up almost perfectly, while version 9 is inconsistent and almost always slower.



This has been the case since I've started using v9.
Quote
Harlan
Thanks for posting the video. Your original post said "There's a 200-700ms lag before the focus indicator begins to move" so that is what I was looking for. In watching the video, I would agree there is a slight difference, but it is not in that range unless the video is not capturing it. We'll investigate.
Regards,
-Harlan
Quote
marcus
Yes, you are correct, that video doesn't clearly capture the delay I mentioned, but the delay exists in normal usage. Sometimes it's quite small, other times it feels like it's almost a full second, though it's difficult to time it exactly.

Regardless of the exact timing, the point is that when using the arrow keys to navigate, there is a very noticeable lag between hitting a key and the focus changing or an animation starting. If it wasn't enough to be distracting, I wouldn't have never thought to post this, but as it is, it takes away from the seamless experience of using the software.
Quote
Harlan
OK, when you do see a larger delay next time, please take note of whether you just switched to TB after using some other application. My guess is that the delay is caused by paging of memory which can happen if other application are using lots of memory while TB is idle. When this happens, TBs memory is swapped out to disk by the OS and when you come back and ask it to do something that needs that memory it has to be loaded from disk, causing a sometimes significant delay. If my guess is correct, the best way to avoid it is to add more RAM to your machine.
Regards,
-Harlan
Quote
a_d
Harlan, Matt, 

I would like to add my observations to marcus' thread, since I am experiencing similar issues which prevent me from migrating to TB 9. Until now, I did not migrate, since the slight delays when using TB 9 are somewhat annoying to me. The "flow" is simply missing. 

First, I tried to capture my observations first using a screen recorder. However, the screen recorder is interfering with the application speed for rendering the content. (Files ScreenRecorder_* in Dropbox). For completeness, I uploaded them nevertheless. 

Then I simply used my SmartPhone Camera (Files Camera_* in Dropbox). In that case, you can clearly see the different response times of TB 8 and TB 9. I clicked my mouse in the moment you a red circle. The animation of the circle gives you an impression how much time passes before the application switches to the next thought. To me, there is a significant difference between TB 8 and 9. 

Coming back to the screen recordings. In file "ScreenRecorder_TheBrain9.flv" at second 22, you can observe a delay when clicking the menu. 

I also checked my machine's memory. At the time of the recording only 64% of 4gb physical memory were used, which lets me assume there should not be any swapping issues. 

TB9 version: 9.0.225.0
TB8 version. 8.0.2.2
Windows 10x64
Dropbox Link:  https://www.dropbox.com/sh/cpqh5crjvxidur0/AAAq4RqHAVoBsvJ0DRQDcrSPa?dl=0

How can I further support solving the issue? I would be really happy to be able to switch to TB9.

Thanks! 

Regards, 
André 

TheBrain 8.0.1.3 Win7 x64 J-1.7.0_45
Quote
Harlan
Hi André,

That is curious. When using the menus, all of the rendering and interaction is handled by the OS. Prior to the menu displaying, there is a small amount of code that runs to determine which menus should be visible and/or enabled which is one possible source of the delay, but those should run very quickly. What kind of hard drive is being used to store your brain? If you would, please run a benchmark on it to see if that could be the issue:

https://www.techspot.com/downloads/6014-as-ssd-benchmark.html

Please post the results you get when running this test. Thanks.
Regards,
-Harlan
Quote
marcus
Harlan,
I'm using a 2016 MBP w/ a 2.7ghz i7 and 16gb of ram on an SSD drive. It's not the machine. It isn't the case that v9 is sometimes slower than v8, or that it's slower after switching apps or with high memory pressure or anything like that. V9 is always slower.

André's videos are completely consistent with what I'm seeing. He and I are both making a direct comparisons by using v8 and v9 on the same hardware under the same circumstances and v9 is clearly slower. Running benchmarks etc., seems unnecessary given those parameters.
Quote
Harlan
Sorry Marcus, but there's no way for us to fix whatever the issue is unless we can reproduce it. If this were happening on every machine you would be correct but, since it is not we need more information. The benchmark will tell me if André's hard drive is the cause of the issue (as it has been for some other cases of poor performance) or if it is something different.

The video André posted is very different from your issue, is it not? He is running on Windows and seeing a pause when opening the options menu. Unless I am misunderstanding, the issue you are having is on macOS and it is that the keyboard navigation circle does not respond as quickly as it does in V8.
Regards,
-Harlan
Quote
marcus

I'm not sure why you're referring to the options menu. He says:

Quote:
I clicked my mouse in the moment you a red circle. The animation of the circle gives you an impression how much time passes before the application switches to the next thought. To me, there is a significant difference between TB 8 and 9.

He's talking about slowness while navigating the plex which you can see in his videos and is same issue I'm having. I've mentioned the slowness specifically in the context of keyboard navigation since I think it's the easiest to repro, but it's the same with mouse use. I realize he's on Windows, I never implied the issue exclusive to macOS, it's just where I've experienced it. Apparently it's also a problem on Windows.

I could be wrong and we're having two separate issues, but that's not what it sounds like to me. Maybe André can confirm?

Quote
a_d
Hi Harlan, 

thanks for your fast response. 

In fact (maybe I did not write it that clear in my first post), I see a general "lag" when using the UI in TB9. The important part is the navigation in the plex, cf
Quote:

I clicked my mouse in the moment you a red circle. The animation of the circle gives you an impression how much time passes before the application switches to the next thought. To me, there is a significant difference between TB 8 and 9.

At the same time, I observe some lag when opening a menu as for example the options menu. My assumption is/was that these are somewhat connected. 

To me, the issue of marcus looks similar, but I cannot say it is really the same. To me, at least my issue, seems not only to relate with UI animation, but reaction to a click event. Will try to reproduce marcus issue on my machine later...


My Brain is stored on the internal SSD, with the following benchmark: 

as-ssd-bench INTEL SSDSC2BF18 02.11.2017 08-18-34.png 
TheBrain 8.0.1.3 Win7 x64 J-1.7.0_45
Quote
marcus
Just bumping this post - I'm still having major slowness on the latest version, both in the app menus and the plex. v 9.0.231.0. Any suggestions for things to try to fix this? I'm baffled as to why some people don't have the issue but I do. I can't think of anything special about my setup that would cause this.

16gb ram.. recently rebooted my machine. Only The Brain, a browser, messages, notes, and Clearview are running... plenty of free memory, storage, CPU.

I took another video - you can really see how slow it is by watching the green hover indications, then if you turn the volume up some and listen for the clicks you can see the delay between clicking and anything happening:

Quote

Add a Website Forum to your website.

Newsletter Signup  Newsletter        Visit TheBrain Blog   Blog       Follow us on Twitter   Twitter       Like Us on Facebook   Facebook         Circle Us on Google+  Google         Watch Us on Youtube  YouTube       

TheBrain Mind Map & Mindmapping Software     Download TheBrain Mind Mapping Software