mrsandbags
Every couple of years I download the latest version of Tinderbox, play with it for about 5 minutes, realise it doesn't quite fit me and park it for another couple of years.

But I do think it's a very ambitious concept and has some interesting ideas that TheBrain could learn from.

Anyone else here a user?
MOWER/VALDEMARIN
Experts at creating value by sharpening purpose, stimulating thinking, sharing insight, and finding hidden opportunities for you
tel +44 797 707 6709  ·  skype: matt.mower ·   http://mwrvld.com/  ·  https://uk.linkedin.com/in/mattmower

TheBrain v9.0.245.0 | macOS 10.12.6 | MacBook Pro 13,1 (late 2016) 2.4Gz i7, 16GB RAM, Intel Iris 540 GPU


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metta
Will be very interested in any additional feedback on Tinderbox.

I've been eyeing it for years, but as a Windows user, I've never had access. Always thought it looked quite interesting -- and I'm curious now to know, Matt:
> What appeals to you about Tinderbox?
> What doesn't quite work for you? 
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Cerebrum
zenrain will show up soon ...

Here's one of his posts about Tinderbox from 2014:
Quote:
Overall, Tinderbox is better than TheBrain for targeted items, but not as good as TheBrain for a knowledge base, or anything requiring a lot of data, or showing data in dynamic/free flowing relationships and tentative relationships.
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zenrain
LOL

Tinderbox has gotten significantly better since it's 2014 iteration. I use it off and on, but it's never quite sunk in for me. There are a few primary reasons. Notes are a pain for me to get formatted in a manner that I like and is consistent. I could do this, but never quite get there because
The way I want it set up takes a lot of work and fiddling and ends up being more work that it's worth (for me) and it's not scaleable without a huge amount of work arranging things, or losing items in deep outline hierarchies.

Basically, I end up fiddling more than I do working. I've gotten very close to the end of the fiddle factor, and to where it starts to function for me, but then I find something where I can't view it the way I need to and get frustrated.

Having said all this, it's prototypes, agents and rules are extremely powerful and would probably do a lot of what you are looking to do based on some of the posts here. The learning curve is steep, but the power it provides you to surface, organize and represent notes is unparalleled. 
macOS 10.13
TheBrain 9.0.250
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metta
Very helpful feedback, ZenRain. Thanks for sharing your updated input.
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mrsandbags
zenrain wrote:
Tinderbox has gotten significantly better since it's 2014 iteration. I use it off and on, but it's never quite sunk in for me. There are a few primary reasons. Notes are a pain for me to get formatted in a manner that I like and is consistent. I could do this, but never quite get there because
The way I want it set up takes a lot of work and fiddling and ends up being more work that it's worth (for me) and it's not scaleable without a huge amount of work arranging things, or losing items in deep outline hierarchies.

Basically, I end up fiddling more than I do working. I've gotten very close to the end of the fiddle factor, and to where it starts to function for me, but then I find something where I can't view it the way I need to and get frustrated.

Having said all this, it's prototypes, agents and rules are extremely powerful and would probably do a lot of what you are looking to do based on some of the posts here. The learning curve is steep, but the power it provides you to surface, organize and represent notes is unparalleled. 


Yeah I've been doing this dance since about 2004. I really like the vision of Tinderbox and was lucky to chat with Mark Bernstein about hypertext back when blogging was a thing and I was thinking about shifting from Radio Userland to Tinderbox. But damn is that app quirk as hell. Like you I end up constantly fiddling with things, and never quite able to make peace with them.

But ideas like agents, rules, and prototypes are exactly the kinds of things I think Brain needs to get to the next level. The ability to attach arbitrary metadata to a thought via its type would be a good start.

I really do hope that v9 is leading us somewhere… The current TheBrain software is not (assuming my memory is anywhere near reliable) doing anything radically different - from an information management perspective - than 'ol PersonalBrain was doing back in 2004.
MOWER/VALDEMARIN
Experts at creating value by sharpening purpose, stimulating thinking, sharing insight, and finding hidden opportunities for you
tel +44 797 707 6709  ·  skype: matt.mower ·   http://mwrvld.com/  ·  https://uk.linkedin.com/in/mattmower

TheBrain v9.0.245.0 | macOS 10.12.6 | MacBook Pro 13,1 (late 2016) 2.4Gz i7, 16GB RAM, Intel Iris 540 GPU


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DrBop
I bought Tinderbox impulsively when it was discounted a couple years back. Installed it. Opened it. Then went searching for help.

I found a couple of out-dated videos, and many iterations of advice that were variations of, "The program is what you make of it."

None of that was helpful to me. 

I closed the program. Never re-opened it.

On the other hand, I use DevonThink on my Mac religiously. It stores, finds, and correlates vast stores of information rather effortlessly. I use it to maintain thousands of scholarly articles, and thousands of personal notes. 

I know that it also has a reputation for having a steep learning curve. But I have found the app to be relatively easy to use. The power reveals itself incrementally.

One can get started with DevonThink fairly quickly, and then get fancier and fancier as the comfort level increases. At least that has been my experience.

I'll anticipate the natural question here:  Have I found a way to integrate DevonThink with TheBrain? 

Not digitally.

Perhaps someone more adept than I has managed to integrate them. That would be a huge leap forward in digital asset management for me!

Please do share!

I use DevonThink to store (and often simply to "index" content -- you don't have to move content into the database per se), and TheBrain to "re-associate" content in creative, interpretive ways that full content or keywords or tags alone would not do. 

Unfortunately, as you can imagine, this yields more redundancy in information handling than I would prefer. Ideally, one program would suffice, or at least the two could be integrated.

If that's possible, again, I would love to know your experience.

Don
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metta
I'm not a Mac, Tinderbox or DevonThink user, but I'm definitely interested -- and I did have a couple of DevonThink discussions bookmarked. Perhaps one or both might be of interest?
> Brain Integration with DevonThink Tags
> Import from DevonThink
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zenrain
Also a user of DevonThink. My primary use is for scanning and storing bills, as well as searching site information I've downloaded manually. I don't have much cross-over. I did try at one point, but my use of TheBrain is too habitual and automatic, I just never really switched over to it except in the above examples. 

Oh, except recently, I've been using it as a document repository for iOS, because frankly, it deals with documents and is much easier to use right now than TheBrain for iOS.
macOS 10.13
TheBrain 9.0.250
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DrBop
RE: DevonThink, thanks so much metta and zenrain! Looks like there remains a great opportunity to integrate this powerful program -- once again -- with TheBrain. Apparently, someone successfully accomplished a rudimentary version of this task back in 2010-2011 with previous versions of these apps. 

Some kind of two-way information flow between the apps would be sooooo powerful! (And for me, just about information management nirvana -- the capstone of about a 40 year quest!)

Don
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DrBop
Actually, there IS a fairly easy, albeit not automatic, way to link items between TheBrain and DevonThink: Item Linking.

Linking from DevonThink to TheBrain 

1. Navigate in DevonThink to your target item (note, PDF, document) 

2. Right-click the entry 

3. Select: "Copy Item Link"

4. Navigate in TheBrain to the appropriate Thought


5. Right-click it 

6. Select "Add Attachment"

7. Paste the URL for the internal link to the target (which when executed should open in a new window within DevonThink).



Conversely, to open an item in TheBrain from within DevonThink, it is a similar procedure.

Going to TheBrain from DevonThink

1. Navigate to the target Thought within TheBrain

2. Right-click the Thought

3. Select "Copy Local Target Thought URL"

4. Paste the URL into a new note, or a text section of an existing item within DevonThink 

5. To navigate to this item within TheBrain while working in DevonThink, select the URL for the item, right click it, select "Open URL" and it should navigate directly to the Thought within TheBrain.

This linking provides a bridge to items stored in these two powerful apps. 

Bonus Tip:  Use the NOTES field in TheBrain to add information about the file or item to which you've linked!

Don
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lunatrix
Interesting discussion - thanks everyone.
I also have been attracted by the vision of Tinderbox - downloaded trials several times over the years. But found it far too idiosyncratic to feel safe investing the time and energy to master how it works, plus frustrated at how un-streamlined its workflows are.
Ive also used DT quite a bit - very capable in many ways but has some really annoying and frustrating (to my mind) features. Currently I have moved over to Eaglefiler which is fairly basic but has a few advantages, esp in having a completely transparent file structure, so you can access stuff equally easily from inside or outside the program, and keep its database in the cloud. I wish the developers would update it a bit more - it has heaps of features I really like but is in desperate need of a face-lift.
I'm really loving Dynalist, which gets more and more useful for brainstorming and quick linking. 
And of course I still enjoy the Brain after all these years - just continue hesitating to fully commit. The thing I would most like is to have more flexibility with tags and types (making them hierarchical, easy to manage, and smart). And better integration with MacOS, and the finder.
Oh and I have started playing with the new notes app Agenda - anyone else trying that?
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