PhilM
With apologies if this request has been made before:

I don't see a way to use HTML with NO styles. Now notes contain all sorts of style crap.

This is really bad for people like me who prefer to do all writing in basic HTML, thus making all content that we create in TheBrain (and in other tools that support HTML) reusable in any context.

Can we please have an option in Brain 9 to use the old style-less (no CSS) Notes editor? The Brain 8 Notes editor is great -- a perfect combination of easy to read/edit Design view and clean HTML! It's also very easy to use.

Thanks,

Phil Murray
TamingComplexity.org
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zenrain
You should take a look at the .html file the notes use in the [ThoughtGUID]\Notes folder. I've looked at a couple and it seems like clean html to me.
macOS 10.13
TheBrain 9.0.250
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PhilM
That's true -- and thanks for pointing that out.

But if I copy the note content and paste it into another application, all the style information is embedded in the content.

I did just notice that if you choose to display the note in a browser, you get clean HTML. But that's an extra step or two that I would like to avoid.

Perhaps there are other techniques that I have not discovered yet.

I do genuinely like almost all the decisions you have made so far with Beta 9.

Thanks,

     Phil

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zenrain
You can assign a shortcut to Open in Browser (Preferences > Keyboard in the Notes section). This would save you from having to use the dropdown/button, hopefully making things slightly easier. I doubt that they would bring back TheBrain 8 notes as it was supplied by a third party and the new notes was built from the ground up along with the rest of the program. 

If the above doesn't work for you, a feature request for the ability to have a shortcut to copy without .css style might be a good avenue. 

However, I've also seen that they are considering adding the ability to customize your own style. This might work for you also (depending on how it would be implemented), as you could remove all styling so everything would be copied as is... [smile]
macOS 10.13
TheBrain 9.0.250
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Harlan
Hi Phil,

What application are you pasting to where this problem is happening? Also, what OS are you on? When you open in the browser and copy from there are you seeing something different?

Regards,
-Harlan
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metta
@PhilM ~

Just wondering, Phil: Did you ever find a suitable workaround for this HTML issue?

I, too, miss the clean and simple note options in the TB8 notes editor, and I'm curious how you've adapted to the V9 changes.
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PhilM
Apologies to both Harlan and metta for the much-delayed response.

1. I'm on Windows 10, v. 10.0.16299
2. When I copy and paste to the SeaMonkey HTML editor, v. 2.46 (my primary writing tool), I get a ton of embedded (and very extraneous) HTML markup in one case.
3. If I paste into Notepad++, all HTML codes are stripped -- which is what I expect.
4. When trying Open Note in Browser (by clicking the icon in the Notes editor), I did get relatively clean HTML when copying from the browser and pasting into the SeaMonkey HTML editor. (But a try with a different Note failed to launch the browser and gave an error. (I sent the report to TheBrain.)
5. No, metta, I haven't found a workaround. But if the Open in Browser option works consistently, I could probably live with that. I would still prefer the TB8 notes editor.

    Phil
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metta
Thanks, Phil, for taking time to provide this additional feedback.
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LuizAlfredo
I think that the option for using or not the Themes could be a good alternative, as Zenrain exposed. When we paste well done HTML content the themes do not bring good results for my stored contents.
L.A.G.M.
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PhilM
Hi, folks.

I'm revisiting the Notes editor issues in Brain 9 because I find them worrisome.

Just to be perfectly clear: I DO want the text coded in [basic] HTML -- as in TheBrain 8. A Custom option would be fine. (A No Styles option would be better.) But the Custom option displayed by clicking the _Notes Style_ button displays _Brain Themes_. And, yes, it does change the Brain Theme -- not the style of Notes. I don't understand that at all. What am I missing?

The most obvious issue: If you copy directly from the Notes editor and paste into an HTML editor (SeaMonkey Composer, in my case), a huge amount of unnecessary (and irritating) HTML coding is inserted into the text.

Using Open in Browser produces a much more desirable result -- a workaround suggested earlier by the good folks here. But I can't help thinking that that the massive amount of code inserted by the Brain 9 Notes editor is NOT a good thing.

Using version 9.0.242.0 for Windows. (Recent previous versions had the same problem.)

The attached text file provides an example.


Thanks,

      Phil Murray
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metta
Phil ~

Does the "Paste & Match Format" option in Right Click Note Menu delete all the extra code?

I hasten to add I realize this may NOT be what you want to do.

Like you, I too would prefer having much more styling control in the notes editor (as we did in TB8), so I understand if this alternative paste option is not the "fix" you are looking for.
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PhilM
metta --

I had never noticed that option, so I just tested it.

No, it doesn't.

Thanks,

    Phil
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metta
Thanks for confirming, Phil.

As I see it, this is all the more reason for having more style-free and style-control options.
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Harlan
Hi Phil,

If you want to see what is actually inside your note, opening the note in the browser and viewing the source will show you that. Content that you write inside the notes editor will be very clean, with minimal tags. If you copy text from another source (Word for example or a web page) and paste it into notes, it will not be clean unless you use "Paste and Match Format" from the context menu.

Setting the notes style (whether you select a pre-defined style or use custom) does not change the content of your note. It only changes the CSS used to render it.

When you choose the "custom" style, yes, the Brain Theme dialog opens because the notes style is part of the brain theme. Just use the "Notes" area of the dialog to choose a base style, select a font, and choose colors.

Going back to original question, the way that copy and paste works is quite complicated and depends on both the source and destination fo the copy/paste operation. All I can tell you is that the HTML that is inside your note is very similar to (actually it's even simpler than) the HTML that is sent to the browser when you choose the open in browser command.

If you really want to see what is in your notes, you can look in the thought folder inside the Notes folder and view the raw HTML. If you see lots of <span> tags with embedded style information, that is content that was either imported from version 8 or was copied and pasted from another source. Contrary to what some people have been saying version 9 actually produces much much cleaner HTML than version 8.
Regards,
-Harlan
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PhilM
Harlan --

First of all, thanks for taking the time to reply in detail to my post. You and others in this forum have always been very helpful, patient, and generous with your time -- one of the reasons I continue to pay for using TheBrain.

I am a long-time user of HTML, but I am NOT an expert in HTML. So let me try to make sure that I am correctly interpreting what you wrote and explain some apparent differences between what you wrote and what I observed when using TheBrain 9. I am sure that at least some of those differences are simply a result of my not understanding what you wrote.


[Harlan]
If you want to see what is actually inside your note, opening the note in the browser and viewing the source will show you that.

[Phil]
By "actually inside your note" I assume you mean what TheBrain stores, before it is rendered by a browser (and styles applied, from wherever they may be stored) for display. But selecting and copying the content of the Notes window itself -- as opposed to the content of that window displayed by "Open in browser" (in my case, Firefox) -- produces two different results. I get what I want [almost -- there's still an unnecessary <div> code] when I use "Open in browser" but it requires a couple extra steps for me.

But why, under any circumstances or in any state of rendering/application of styles, would the browser/editor for Notes built into TheBrain 9 insert such coding as <span> xxxxxx</span> for *every word* in the Note? And isn't there a computational cost for doing so?

[Harlan]
Content that you write inside the notes editor will be very clean, with minimal tags.

[Phil]
It appears that pasting pure ASCII text into the Notes window produces exactly the same result as typing text into the Notes window. That's as it should be.


[Harlan]
If you copy text from another source (Word for example or a web page) and paste it into notes, it will not be clean unless you use "Paste and Match Format" from the context menu.

[Phil]
Word files always contain a lot of junk. Which is why I do not use Word for writing. And I can't test that part of your assertion because I don't own Word.

Using Firefox, if I copy some text from a Web page and paste it using "Paste and Match Format" into the Notes windows, then copy that text from the Notes window into SeaMonkey Composer, I still huge get a huge amount coding. Every single word in the text is enclosed in a <span>.


[Harlan]
Setting the notes style (whether you select a pre-defined style or use custom) does not change the content of your note. It only changes the CSS used to render it.

[Phil]
Yes, I understand that.

[Harlan]
When you choose the "custom" style, yes, the Brain Theme dialog opens because the notes style is part of the brain theme. Just use the "Notes" area of the dialog to choose a base style, select a font, and choose colors.

[Phil]
Yes, I see that but it's not relevant for me. I want HTML content that has *no* styling/CSS information. And I think there are many others who want that option.

[Harlan]
Going back to original question, the way that copy and paste works is quite complicated and depends on both the source and destination fo the copy/paste operation.

[Phil]
Yes, I understand some of those issues. I worked with SGML before XML and HTML (and XHTML) existed. Getting content from a wide range of sources into a consistent, reusable form has been an issue for as long as we have shared electronic documents. Trust me, the issues at the Wall Street Journal and major publishing houses in the '90s were nightmarish. And we all have different solutions, it seems.

Even clean HTML (XHTML) is not a very good solution; its simplistic modeling of content architecture is routinely abused ... badly, often because people use visible styles to represent content structure ... because there is little choice. God bless Tim B-L for at least giving us something simple to start with, but he could not have foreseen that Web pages would become even more complex than most printed pages.

[Harlan]
All I can tell you is that the HTML that is inside your note is very similar to (actually it's even simpler than) the HTML that is sent to the browser when you choose the open in browser command.

[Phil]
It's very similar in appearance in WYSIWYG mode, but not when you look at the underlying HTML-coded content. And if I just Copy the content of the Notes to another application that tries to render the HTML-coded content, I get a real mess. For example, in OpenOffice Writer, every original word of the text is surrounded by OO Writer codes.

[Harlan]
If you really want to see what is in your notes, you can look in the thought folder inside the Notes folder and view the raw HTML.

[Phil]
Yes, I have done that.

[Harlan]
If you see lots of <span> tags with embedded style information, that is content that was either imported from version 8 or was copied and pasted from another source.

[Phil]
In my tests, that appears not to be true. Whether typing directly into a Notes window of a new Thought or pasting pure ASCII text into that Window, the extra <span> tags are produced.

Thanks,

    Phil Murray
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