jostber
Using the Delete key for forgetting a thought or Shift-Delete for deleting it, does not work anymore in v.5.5.0.0. Delete option can not be found in the menu either.

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PB 5.5.0.0
Suse 11.1
KDE 4.2  
Java 1.6.0_14



TheBrain 8.0.2.0 Slackware 14.1 KDE 4.10.3 Java 1.7.0_25 / (Windows 7)

Quote
zenrain
I'm unable to replicate this. I can find delete under Thought > Delete, and also on the right click menu. Shift clicking still changes the forget to delete for me also.
v 5.5.0.1-b
Windows 7
J-1.6.0_22
--
OSX 10.6.3
Java SE 6
Quote
Moe
jostber, Thanks for posting. If the Delete option is not appearing in the Thought menu, could it be that you have Options > Preferences > Advanced (Tab) set to "forget Thoughts before deleting"? The delete key seems to work for deleting Thoughts that are not currently active. So if you were to select a Thought with the keyboard using the green circle indicator without activating it it will work. I have noted this for the engineers to look into.

Best regards,
Moe

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PB 5.5.0.1-b
Ubuntu 8.04.2
Gnome 2.22.3
Java 1.6.0_14

Quote
jostber
Moe wrote: jostber, Thanks for posting. If the Delete option is not appearing in the Thought menu, could it be that you have Options > Preferences > Advanced (Tab) set to "forget Thoughts before deleting"? The delete key seems to work for deleting Thoughts that are not currently active. So if you were to select a Thought with the keyboard using the green circle indicator without activating it it will work. I have noted this for the engineers to look into.

Best regards,
Moe

-----------
PB 5.5.0.1-b
Ubuntu 8.04.2
Gnome 2.22.3
Java 1.6.0_14



Thanks, Moe. Both of these are confirmed. Delete appeared in the menu after unchecking the option. The active thought cannot be deleted, only an unactive thought with the green circle on it.


TheBrain 8.0.2.0 Slackware 14.1 KDE 4.10.3 Java 1.7.0_25 / (Windows 7)

Quote
Harlan
This is by design to prevent accidental deletion/forgetting of the active thought.
Regards,
-Harlan
Quote
vindi2006
somehow I don't like this "by design feature". As I see, still is the same on 5.5.0.7-b... for me personally it's very convenient to delete active thought, instead two step, select then delete ...

Regards

Quote
Harlan

imagine this: you're typing something into search and decide to make a change - you hit the delete key one too many times and suddenly the active thought disappears. this is why this has been changed.

Regards,
-Harlan
Quote
vindi2006
Ok, , I believe that you've had survey on this and most of brain users agree with you so that's why you've implemented.

All the best

Quote
dyslucksia
Quote: Ok, , I believe that you've had survey on this and most of brain users agree with you so that's why you've implemented.

What survey?
  • I don't recall ever having seen a survey or poll advertised;
  • Searching the forum on "delete poll" produced nothing;
  • The only UserVoice thread on Delete that was relevant asked for quite the opposite, to which Harlan replied "Completed. It's in the next release...". Unfortunately, nothing in UserVoice has a date on it, so I don't know to which version "next release" referred.
Leaving that aside, there are several confusing inconsistencies in the current arrangement.

In v5.0 and earlier, pressing Delete forgot the active Thought, whereas pressing Shift+Del deleted it, after asking for confirmation. Simple and easy.

In 5.5.0.0 Release Notes, Harlan stated:

Quote: o  The Delete key now serves several functions
 - If forgetting is enabled, it forgets the highlighted thought.
 - If forgetting is disabled or the Shift key is pressed, it deletes the highlighted thought.
 - If a link is highlighted, removes the link


and later:

Quote: Fixed: Forgetting of the active Thought via the [Delete] key should not be allowed

Why was this a "bug" that needed to be fixed? That was normal behaviour in 5.0 and earlier versions.

In v5.5.1.0 Beta:

1) The Delete key doesn't work at all for me on Windows XP - neither to Forget nor Delete, no matter what the status of the "Forget Thoughts before deleting" checkbox happens to be.

2) There are 3 keyboard accelerators (KBAs) for Forget/Delete, named:
  • Thought > delete
  • Thought > forget
  • Forget/Delete highlighted thought or link
3) Delete is the default KBA for Forget/Delete highlighted thought or link, and cannot be changed (so why bother including it in this list anyway?). Not only can't it be changed, it doesn't work, as mentioned above.

4) KBAs can be set for Thought > delete and Thought > forget, but if "Forget Thoughts before deleting" is checked, the former KBA doesn't work at all, and if "Forget Thoughts before deleting" is unchecked, the latter won't!

This has become hopelessly muddled.

What's more, I use Forgetting for much more than to prevent accidental deletion. It's still the only permanent way I have to shield Thoughts from being displayed in the Plex, until I turn Show Forgotten Thoughts on. Reports inverse filtering doesn't come close in usefulness and, furthermore, ties up Reports so it can't be used for anything else.

Now that you've imposed this on us, I can't have two concurrent keyboard commands, one for Forget and the other for Delete; once again you've forced me back to using the mouse for one or the other, depending on the state of the "Forget Thoughts before deleting" checkbox.

Harlan said in reply to the new Delete option, above:
Quote: imagine this: you're typing something into search and decide to make a change - you hit the delete key one too many times and suddenly the active thought disappears. this is why this has been changed.

I can't imagine this at all, since it's impossible. The confirmation key for Delete is (or should be) Enter, not Delete pressed a second time. (I have to say, I never tried pressing Delete a second time to do this; if it ever did, this would have been a bug.)

Anyway, if Delete meant Forget, as it used to, one would have expected the Active Thought to disappear as soon as PB forgot it! The only worry would be if Shift+Delete acted without confirmation, but even then you could recover the Thought by using Undo if it was early enough, then immediately report it as an issue.

So, are we talking about the same or different things here? No one up till now has mentioned confirmation, or the option to disable confirmation when deleting, in this thread. Deleting without confirmation sounds risky, but if you suddenly wanted to delete 20 Thoughts, you'd get mighty tired of having to press Enter before each delete. If you accidentally deleted instead of forgot the Thought, you could use Undo. If the option to delete without confirmation is provided, AND one is intelligent enough to apply it temporarily, one should also be intelligent enough to remember to turn it off afterwards. We need more, not fewer options here, and we need them designed sensibly, not just reduced simply because someone decides what's good for us.

How to resolve this situation?
Simple.
1) Get rid of the Forget Thoughts before deleting checkbox. THIS is not only dangerous, it disables keyboard deleting if checked.
2) Replace it with a Confirm before deleting Thoughts checkbox, set by default to ON. Most users will leave it that way, I think.
3) Delete and Shift+Delete should continue to Forget and Delete, respectively (with confirmation before Delete set as default).
4) Get rid of the Forget/Delete highlighted thought or link KBA.
5) Continue to offer separate KBAs for Forget and Delete, but allow either to be used without having to dive deep into Preferences to switch
Forget Thoughts before deleting before the other can be employed! The only thing wrong with using the default Delete key to delete is that it's too far away from the Enter key to permit confirmation without moving the right hand, so a closer Delete KBA such as Ctrl+zero would make it easier.
PB 5.5.2.1 on Windows XP, J-1.6.0_17
Quote
Underdog
Confirmed in 5.5.1.0-b: neither DELETE nor SHIFT-DELETE work to forget/delete thoughts regardless of Forget Thoughts before deleting checkbox.

Folks, please 1) simplify this and 2) get it to work. I expect because it is not simple, it is also not working. I would agree with most of
dyslucksia resolution suggestions except 5 - keyboards are not all created equal. On my notebook DELETE is conveniently near and below ENTER; yet on my netbook it is awkwardly far and above ENTER. All the more reason to strongly recommended that users can override the default  DELETE hotkey
- Michael
TheBrain 8.0.2.1 / JRE 1.8.0_111 / Win7 Pro, v. 6.1.7601 SP1 Build 7601


Quote
vindi2006
Yea people, I agree, for me "delete" behavior was just fine... I would be happier to have it back in 5.5..

regards

Quote
dyslucksia
If Forget Thoughts before deleting applies to the Thought context menu, why doesn't it also apply to the Selection Box? In other words, even if the option is unchecked, it seems I still need to hold down the Shift key to make the Selection context menu display Delete Selection. This is inconsistent.

Furthermore, the Del key seems to have given up working entirely in 5.5.1.2.  I can't change it:



Yet it doesn't appear on the context menu options, no matter what the settings:





And when I press Del, nothing happens, no matter what the Preferences setting is, and no matter whether or not the context menu is open. Yes, I made sure no macro scripts were running at the time.

So how do we delete Thoughts in 5.5? You guessed it - use the  mouse. EACH TIME. No other way. May I politely express my disappointment by adding a smiley?

I'm glad I'm not a newbie learning how to drive PB 5.5.

Here's another thread on the subject by zenrain:

http://thebrain.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=3610162

To sum up: Please make it easy for us to Delete a Thought using keyboard alone. The old way was fine.



PB 5.5.2.1 on Windows XP, J-1.6.0_17
Quote

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