JosefBetancourt
Wikis can be powerful resources.   As an experiment I wanted to test one method of embedding a wiki into PB4.  Embedding here means having  a thought open an editable wiki within the Brain (the wiki is in the Brain, not another server).

Which wiki?   There is a type of wiki that does not need a server.  These fit into the category called "single page application" (SPA).   One of the best is called TiddlyWiki.  See its wikimedia entry here. An alternative, for smaller size, is TinyTiddly.

Process
1.  Download a blank version of TiddlyWiki page.  I attached a wiki I'm starting on buying a used car, so its essentially blank, like my bank account.
2.  Import it into Brain at a thought.  I did this with a control-drag&drop.
3.  Click on the thought to open the wiki.  In options menu of wiki turn off "save backups", or the Brain's thought will start showing these as attachments.

Thats it.   Now when you activate that thought the wiki opens.  when you save the wiki changes, they go back into the Brain.

Advantages
Rich easy to learn wiki language for editing.  Hypermedia within a page.  This gives the Brain another degree of freedom or axis.  An alternative to the built-in editor.

--- Josef Betancourt






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gcoulthard
Wow, great idea! Thank you for this. I've used TiddlyWiki, GTDTiddly and MonkeyGTD before. All these would work well within the Brain structure. Thank you for letting me see beyond the box!

Glen
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JosefBetancourt
Yea, these wikis are amazing.   Could open up some neat stuff, for example, since theBrain will eventually allow access via an external URI, one exciting possibility is to be able to create wiki words that link to thoughts in the plex itself.   Thus, combined with scriptability for example, we would get a truly hyperdimensional Brain, and as you mentioned, with the TiddlyWiki plug-ins, you could enable stuff like GTD. 

--- Josef


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JosefBetancourt
I had a another idea about this.  Use wiki instance as a content Template.  This would allow the ability to create wikis for/on any thought.  Hard to describe so I attached a screen shot of the wiki opened in the browser after activating a wikified thought.

I created another revision of the wiki template that has more info on how to use.  Attached.

Setup
  1. Download the attached file.  Rename it to have an html extension.
  2. On a thought in the Brain, preferably you created a TiddlyWiki thought, but does not matter.
  3. On the thought right click and open the 'Properties & Attachments' menu.
  4. Click 'Add Attachment'
  5. Click Templates button.
  6. Now copy the file from step one above into the templates folder that is shown in step 5.  Mine was 'C:\Documents and Settings\betancourtj\Application Data\PersonalBrain\templates'
  7. Close the attachment dialoge.
  8. Done.
How to use
When at a thought and the Attachment dialog is opened via right-click or thought activation, select the wiki template as content.  The browser will open the wiki page.  Be sure to save changes.

---- Josef Betancourt


Click image for larger version - Name: wikiScreenShot.PNG, Views: 2801, Size: 92.95 KB
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JosefBetancourt
More on this MashUp.  If this is getting tiring, let me know.

In TiddlyWiki an entry or a "MicroContent" is called a Tiddler.  So, this sounds like a Thought.  It would be interesting to be able to link from a Thought to a specific Tiddler.  There is.

In a wiki page, on a specific Tiddler, you can click on the context menu's "more" and see more actions.  One of these is 'permalink'.  Click on this and in the browser address bar the url is updated with the url required, example:
file:///C:/data/brains/brains4/TestBrain2_brain/Files/74231991-1325-8376-9F3B-B10B2EA33BAE/TestWikiTemplateUse.html#%5B%5BPersonalBrain%20Notes%5D%5D

This url works in browser, pasting the above url into the browser will open the wiki page to that Tiddler. But, will not work when put as attachment into any Thought.  Looking into it.

--- Josef Betancourt





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Harlan
Josef,

Thanks for all the information on this. It's certainly interesting to me. It has also given me a few good ideas.

Regards,
-Harlan
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SamCox
Josef,

This is an extremely interesting thread. I am a heavy user of TiddlyWiki and PersonalBrain. Linking the two would be a dream.

-- Sam

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tcahill
About nine months ago, I became caught up in the TiddlyWiki concept, and spent a month or so exploring the different implementations. I was particularly impressed with the MonkeyGTD. There has been a lot of good work done on this approach, and the idea is fascinating. However, and it might just be because I am somewhat old-school, I found it problematic that the TiddlyWiki approach bundled the application and the user data together on the same page. My concern is that with my data getting so intertwined with the data management and presentation engines (both of which are updated and modified very frequently), there is a big potential for data loss. I know that there are backup methods, and as a user, I never attained much competency in tiddlywiki, but nevertheless I did repeatedly loose data (in part because I did not sufficiently grok the UI, no doubt), and abandoned (temporarily anyways) the method.

I'll certainly be watching the development of this idea closely. I think it is somewhat parallel to the notion of launching notes in a browser for FCKEditing (to be saved back to the pb note). I seems obvious that there are some exciting possibilities for extending the capabilities of html-based pb notes.

Be vewy quiet. I'm hunting wabbit.
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asexymind
Josef - this is a godsend.  Please, keep up this thread with all the hacks you create for this dynamite mashup. 

One major question, one minor one.
Major - will the wiki be editable if you export it to an http://webpage?
minor - would this work with a database driven wiki such as mediawiki (the one I use)?

Then again, perhaps I should just switch to tiddlywiki since it works with the brain...
--
Mark Michael Lewis | The Profitability Coach
http://GameOfThriving.com | Mark@TheThriveCoach.com
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JosefBetancourt
asexymind wrote:
Major - will the wiki be editable if you export it to an http://webpage?

Yes, the wiki should be editable if you export the wiki page itself somewhere and if that place allows you to save any editing changes you make to the wiki.
Quote:
minor - would this work with a database driven wiki such as mediawiki (the one I use)?

I'm not sure I understand the question.  On an external Wiki you could of course just make normal thought links to that wiki server and use the wiki as normal.  But, if you mean can you send the embedded TiddlyWiki (or any embedded wiki) to a data-based wiki site, no, not as a wiki page.  Each wiki has its own wiki language and so forth, though they are very similar.  Hmm, why isn't there a standard for this?

I think the embedded Brain wiki concept goes along with the idea of the single page application.  That is, you can transmit, edit, store, and extend these, and they are cross-platform, whereas an external wiki has its own lifecycle and limitations.  Plus, this is cool!

--- Josef



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JosefBetancourt
Problem with creating a thought link to a specific tiddler is that the Brain is stripping off the ending url fragment:

Using:
file:///C:/data........./TestWikiTemplateUse.html

Whereas it should be using this:
file:///C:/data........./TestWikiTemplateUse.html#%5B%5BPersonalBrain%20Notes%5D%5D

The 5B 5D combo is [ and ], btw.  So the fragment is #[[frag]]

Maybe I'm missing something in how TiddlyWiki works?  Is it intensional for the Brain to do URL Normalization, ie., dropping the fragment?

--- Josef



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JosefBetancourt
Harlan wrote:
Thanks for all the information on this. It's certainly interesting to me. It has also given me a few good ideas.


One simple suggestion is to add a wiki export option to PB4 in additon to the simple HTML one.  It doesn't even have to be a SPA, could be  data-based wiki, yet server-less.  Though embedding Jetty in it would be cool too.  The only advantage I see with this over plain HTML with Javascript, is that it reuses an existing usable paradigm (?).

--- Josef Betancourt



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JosefBetancourt
tcahill wrote: However, and it might just be because I am somewhat old-school, I found it problematic that the TiddlyWiki approach bundled the application and the user data together on the same page. My concern is that with my data getting so intertwined with the data management and presentation engines (both of which are updated and modified very frequently)


I share the same concerns.  Especially when used with a version control system (in a development environment).  How do you reconcile changes if everything is changing?  Javascript (AJAX) can get pretty opague.

However, the combined data and code is analogous to what happens in OOP, an object has data (really state) and the code to act on it.  Which is good and bad, IMHO.

Interesting interview with TiddlyWiki's creator.

---- Josef Betancourt


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JosefBetancourt
I just found out on the TiddlyWiki forum that there is a similar approach of using a digraph to show the Tiddlers in a wiki page.  This is what I was thinking as the reverse embedding, the brain in a wiki page.

  Hypergraph TiddlyWiki extension.   This uses the Hyperbolic Geometry stuff that, IMO, pales before theBrain's approach in usability and power.

--- Josef




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punkmonksf
One of the things I notice, however, is that the tiddly creates a backup file every time it is saved. Then an accumulation of tiddlywiki backups appear in the attachments list. Even with tinytiddly, this 136Kb a pop starts to add up.

Any idea whether any or all of the "backups" can be deleted, or rather, is there any way to get these to be created in a different default location so that they can be archived outside of the brain?

Karekin

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