mrsandbags
Sometimes I want thoughts to appear in a specific order. Correct me if I am wrong but the only way to do this now is to sort by name and using the rather naff "1. xxxx", "2. yyyy", "3. zzzz" approach.

As well as wasting space this means it's not actually possible to sort by name because you've broken the meaning of name.

I'd like an explicit index field in the thought with the ability to sort by index please.

Thanks.

Matt

MOWER/VALDEMARIN
Experts at creating value by sharpening purpose, stimulating thinking, sharing insight, and finding hidden opportunities for you
tel +44 797 707 6709  ·  skype: matt.mower ·   http://mwrvld.com/  ·  https://uk.linkedin.com/in/mattmower

TheBrain v9.0.245.0 | macOS 10.12.6 | MacBook Pro 13,1 (late 2016) 2.4Gz i7, 16GB RAM, Intel Iris 540 GPU


Quote
ruudhein
In v9 you can use the dot notation. The dot and number won't show.

.1 test
.2 a
.3 b

1.jpg 


1.jpg

[
edit - update] : the obvious advantages are 1) visually clean, 2) upon export will still retain sort order
Using: Evernote | FilterizeEverdo | Dynalist | Liner | TheBrain v9.0.263.0
Quote
mrsandbags
Thanks for the suggestion Ruud. It's a neat trick to solve the problem of seeing the index.

Unfortunately its still conflating the name with the index breaking actual sort-by-name.
MOWER/VALDEMARIN
Experts at creating value by sharpening purpose, stimulating thinking, sharing insight, and finding hidden opportunities for you
tel +44 797 707 6709  ·  skype: matt.mower ·   http://mwrvld.com/  ·  https://uk.linkedin.com/in/mattmower

TheBrain v9.0.245.0 | macOS 10.12.6 | MacBook Pro 13,1 (late 2016) 2.4Gz i7, 16GB RAM, Intel Iris 540 GPU


Quote
metta
Definitely +! for some form of indexing option.

I'm also wondering: has anyone noticed how hidden numbering impacts thoughts sorted by by type? Specifically, do hidden numbers consistently override thought types? Or do thought types override hidden numbers?

The reason I'm asking is that in the limited testing I've done, it appears that thoughts are sorted first by type, then by the hidden number sequence. (See screenshot below.)
> Is this is the intended behavior?
> If so, would it be feasible to create an indexing option that could (optionally) override thought types and thought names?

In the following image, there are 2 sets of 3 test thoughts each with hidden numbers:
> One set is typed
> The 2nd set is untyped

The other 4 thoughts (also linked to the grandparent) are typed and unnumbered.

HiddenNumberTest.png 



 

Quote
ruudhein
The way I see it happening is that the Sort Order in the Options menu comes first: sort by Date Created and that will override dot notation. Likewise with Type.
Using: Evernote | FilterizeEverdo | Dynalist | Liner | TheBrain v9.0.263.0
Quote
metta
Thanks for confirming. That has been my experience, as well.
Quote
mrsandbags
Here is another context. I am mapping out the Thinkers50 list. In 2017 Roger Martin is #1 whereas in 2015 he was #7.

If I wanted the children mapped in order the naming trick won't work because I can't have a different name for the same "Roger Martin" thought. To do this requires that each thought have the ability to specify an index among the children of its parent.

Using the ".n" trick for ordering would also mean that I couldn't order thinkers by their actual name.
MOWER/VALDEMARIN
Experts at creating value by sharpening purpose, stimulating thinking, sharing insight, and finding hidden opportunities for you
tel +44 797 707 6709  ·  skype: matt.mower ·   http://mwrvld.com/  ·  https://uk.linkedin.com/in/mattmower

TheBrain v9.0.245.0 | macOS 10.12.6 | MacBook Pro 13,1 (late 2016) 2.4Gz i7, 16GB RAM, Intel Iris 540 GPU


Quote
metta
Thanks, Matt, for your feedback on this indexing discussion.

Could you share a bit more about how you would like the index to work for your specific use case? I'm not entirely sure I understand how you would ideally like to index these thoughts given the challenges you've described.

Or, is that part of the issue here, that you haven't yet come up with an ideal indexing solution?

(Apologies in advance if I'm missing the gist of what you've already explained.)
Quote
mrsandbags
So the issue for me is about how children are ordered for a given parent. Let's imagine that we are organising people in some kind of container thought.

There is an order based, alphabetically, on name and for people that can be useful however let's say that these people are award winners and the parent thought is the award.

Now you might want to see them by name, but you might also be interested in where they placed. You want to order the people in terms of their award ranking. So you could either use "1. <name>", "2. <name>", and so on. Or you could use the ".1 <name>" trick so that the place numbers weren't shown even though the order would be right.

And this would be fine.

But let's say this award was yearly and you wanted to see who placed where in different years. So you have a set of parent thoughts "Award 2015", "Award 2016", "Award 2017". And you are adding people to these but some people have placed in multiple years and need to be added to more than one parent.

Now you have a problem. If "Matt Mower" was #17 in 2015, #11 in 2016, and #3 in 2017 how do you represent that?

What is required is the ability to give a child though a specific "index" into the parent (note it must be per-parent) and the ability to sort via that index.

This is not an abstract requirement. I am recording the winners of the Thinkers50 (http://thinkers50.com/) for the last several years to analyse them. I'm not recording placings because I can't figure out how to do it since people often appear in 2, 3, 4, or 5 winning lists.

But I would like to be able to.

Does that help?

Matt
MOWER/VALDEMARIN
Experts at creating value by sharpening purpose, stimulating thinking, sharing insight, and finding hidden opportunities for you
tel +44 797 707 6709  ·  skype: matt.mower ·   http://mwrvld.com/  ·  https://uk.linkedin.com/in/mattmower

TheBrain v9.0.245.0 | macOS 10.12.6 | MacBook Pro 13,1 (late 2016) 2.4Gz i7, 16GB RAM, Intel Iris 540 GPU


Quote
ruudhein
I don't know but several things make me think this is better solved with something like a spreadsheet.

First because I'm used to working as much as possible with a program. Rarely if a program doesn't meet my requirements does it grow into doing so eventually. The more "I wish it would"'s I encounter, the stronger the indication this is either not my thing or not the right tool for the job.

And second because you say "analyze". That's the kind of thing you can do in a spreadsheet much more efficiently than in TheBrain, MindManager, or Evernote. 

Faced with the same scenario as you, I would have one spreadsheet that holds the names and the positions over the years. If I want, I can link back the name to the corresponding thought in thebrain. Best (tools) of both worlds.
Using: Evernote | FilterizeEverdo | Dynalist | Liner | TheBrain v9.0.263.0
Quote
mrsandbags
Hi Ruud.

In my case the analysis is in terms of their ideas (and their evolution) that are also thoughts in the brain. Introducing a spreadsheet simply to represent ordering would be not, I think, be a net win.

Thanks.

Matt
MOWER/VALDEMARIN
Experts at creating value by sharpening purpose, stimulating thinking, sharing insight, and finding hidden opportunities for you
tel +44 797 707 6709  ·  skype: matt.mower ·   http://mwrvld.com/  ·  https://uk.linkedin.com/in/mattmower

TheBrain v9.0.245.0 | macOS 10.12.6 | MacBook Pro 13,1 (late 2016) 2.4Gz i7, 16GB RAM, Intel Iris 540 GPU


Quote
ruudhein
True, possibly. But I think the initial idea (index field) is something that might become something; index per parent less likely; and analysis power even less. So I was thinking "well, how could you do this within the current structure"?

What's your primary data point? If it's the person, maybe add their positions in the note field?

Another solution could be tags... But then you lose the "when" aspect. 

Or: just the number ordering to indicate this year's position, then put their previous positions in the label.

If the when isn't that much of a key you could link position thoughts to names and use a link arrow to show the current holder:

1.jpg 

So this way you would have postion + who historically held that postion -- and going back to name level you would see all the postions the person has had and when.

Toying further with that idea -- you can jump off the position to the key ideas you think responsible for that number 1 position, so that over time you see that ideas XYZ tend to rank #1:

1.jpg 
Using: Evernote | FilterizeEverdo | Dynalist | Liner | TheBrain v9.0.263.0
Quote
metta
Clever idea, Ruud, to use the rank as the parent with links based on years. Will be interested to see if this works for Matt.
🙂
Quote
mrsandbags
Hi Ruud.

I admire your persistence and thoughtfulness :-)

I actually don't think that implementing an index per parent is necessarily a very complex thing for them to do (since they must already model the relationship with some metadata) although it has implications for the UI and there's already enough to do there that I can see why they might not want to. Also that it's probably an overly specific use-case that's never going to rise to the top.

So, that said, let's look at your workaround. In the first place it's clever, I especially like the ability to tie an idea to a ranking. Without doing the work I can't tell if that would be interesting or not but it seems like it could be.

It means creating a parallel structure (since it's still important for me to be able to look at, say, the 2017 winners) and there's overhead to that. But not much in the way of on-going maintenance so that's probably a wash.

I guess I will give it a try, thank you, and see how I get on.

Matt
MOWER/VALDEMARIN
Experts at creating value by sharpening purpose, stimulating thinking, sharing insight, and finding hidden opportunities for you
tel +44 797 707 6709  ·  skype: matt.mower ·   http://mwrvld.com/  ·  https://uk.linkedin.com/in/mattmower

TheBrain v9.0.245.0 | macOS 10.12.6 | MacBook Pro 13,1 (late 2016) 2.4Gz i7, 16GB RAM, Intel Iris 540 GPU


Quote
metta
Just wondering if doing a report on all your 2017 links would provide sufficient visibility for rankings by year?
Quote

Add a Website Forum to your website.

Newsletter Signup  Newsletter        Visit TheBrain Blog   Blog       Follow us on Twitter   Twitter       Like Us on Facebook   Facebook         Circle Us on Google+  Google         Watch Us on Youtube  YouTube       

TheBrain Mind Map & Mindmapping Software     Download TheBrain Mind Mapping Software