rustyedges
I see TB9 is nearly complete, and blog post touts reliability as one of the key tenants...so I'm left scratching my head because I'm still experiencing multiple crashes and ongoing errors every day.

80-90% of the time trying to copy attachments I get an error like attached.  I can usually say "continue" instead of restart but is still very annoying.

A couple times a day TB9 will crash when navigating between brains (see attached) and takes forever for it to restart itself.

Tried opening an attachment this morning, and TB9 maxes CPU and doesn't do anything until I kill the process. No log, but can see attachment

I know there have been others but sort of became numb...due to the fact that realize am using beta software. Click image for larger version - Name: tb9 pegged.png, Views: 263, Size: 70.63 KB Click image for larger version - Name: tb9 pegged.png, Views: 262, Size: 70.63 KB
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rustyedges
and another just now...  select two thoughts, ctrl-right click and select delete 2 thoughts...reports error (see attachment 1).  I continue, but then try to select and delete again, assume because were in fact deleted, now crashes (see attachment 2).  
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mcaton
Russ,

We're not out of Beta yet, so it is expected that we'll still have some issues to fix.  It's best to isolate these issues one at a time for a more thorough review.  I'm not sure which of the log files in the first post are from navigating, copying files or opening attachments. So let's first focus on the deleting multiple Thoughts issue.  I have some additional questions.  Did you add thoughts to your selection box by CTRL + clicking? Did you then try to delete with the Shift + right click in the selection box? Is this when you received the error? Can you replicate the same error again? If so, please send or post a copy of your Output.log file for further review.

Thank you,
Matt 
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sibleyd
Yes, I have at least several times a day sometimes far more when something goes wrong whether it freezes, gives an error messages, attachment tabs disappear, etc

The good news is the integrity of the data has never been affected as best I can tell with one set of exceptions. Sometimes, a deleted attachment will reappear apparently synching back from the cloud. This happened once in mass. Lately, after changing my methods, it has been noticed only occasionally. Of course, it is much better for deleted data to reappear than undeleted data to disappear.

I am forgiving of occasional problems so long as I don't lose data. I still cannot get mt braib to synch to my android phone. It gets hung up everytime ob something.

I am sure these issues will be resolved
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Harlan
The top priority for us in reliability is not losing data. This is the prime focus and where we have put the most effort into for version 9.

Errors are a normal part of the development process and are expected during the beta especially. We are reporting errors very aggressively to the user since we want to know about them and fix them. If you are experiencing errors often, that is good because that means it is something we can fix since it should be easy to reproduce. There are an infinite number of ways of using the software and some of you will have different habits than our development and testing team. That means that unfortunately you will see different bugs than we will and the only way we will be able to fix them is for you to tell us about them...

Please don't assume that we know about an error when it happens to you. We fix errors as soon as we can reproduce them. If you are still seeing something it means that we probably have never seen it or haven't figured out how to reproduce it.

Soon the error reporting process will be much more automated, which we hope will allow us better visibility into issues that are happening out there "in the wild". Once we get that working it should enable us to improve the troubleshooting process.

As for deleted items coming back, that's a consequence of the way the sync has been designed to have modifications override deletions. Basically, the sync will resurrect deleted objects if they are changed by another instance. For example, if device A deletes something (let's say a thought) and then device B makes a change to that object or something that depends on that object (such as the thought itself or an attachment on the thought, or even an attachment on a link that connects that thought), the deleted object (the thought in this case) will be undeleted. This resurrection logic is fairly complex and there are still a few kinks to work out. But: "It's a feature, not a bug!" really does apply in this case. It's just that the feature still has a few bugs in it.
Regards,
-Harlan
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rustyedges
thoughts were selected with keyboard shortcut, but yes otherwise exactly as you described.  I can't replicate with a test brain with the few minutes I have this morning.

Sorry, the first post appears to have duplicated each of the 3 attachments.   The one I can replicate, and from majority of attachments, is the one I will attach to this.  I've spent forever trying to figure out a pattern...used to think was from certain URL formats but get plenty of errors from local files as well now.
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rustyedges
Harlan and team, my apologies if I come across negatively.  Too many years in software myself I suppose.

The point about reliability applying to data integrity is well taken and given my near reliance on TB a very good thing.

I look forward to more automated insights that my usage can provide.
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Cerebrum
Harlan wrote: The top priority for us in reliability is not losing data. This is the prime focus and where we have put the most effort into for version 9.I use TB9 on two computers and on two iOS devices and I have lost quite a bit of data over the past few months. 
Fortunately, I don't have any important information that resides exclusively in my TB9 brains. 
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rustyedges
The crash when deleting selection happened again.  Selected 7 thoughts with keyboard shortcut, shift click to delete.   Says has errored but offers option to continue, I click continue and multiple rapid-fire error/crash reports pop up and lock until Windows forces to shut down (see screenshot).  I'm also attaching all error logs from that sequence. Click image for larger version - Name: brain crash after deleting selection.png, Views: 189, Size: 184.77 KB
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zenrain
Cerebrum wrote: I use TB9 on two computers and on two iOS devices and I have lost quite a bit of data over the past few months. 
Fortunately, I don't have any important information that resides exclusively in my TB9 brains. 


I hope you have been working with TheBrain support on reporting and providing logs and details for these losses. 
macOS 10.13
TheBrain 9.0.230
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metta
Thank you, Rusty, for sharing your concerns. Reliability has been a concern for me as well, and it is one of several reasons I have not yet migrated into TB9.

In light of this, I very much appreciate Harlan's feedback about data preservation being THE top development priority. Once I can actually see (and comfortably rely on) the preservation of my data in the webbrain (later on), this will be one of that factors that will increase my comfort with transitioning from TB8 to TB9.

I also appreciate Matt's and Harlan's reminders that we are still in beta, and that bugs are still to be expected. This was my assumption as well, and this is quite honestly part of the reason I was puzzled in recently seeing the following information on TB download page: http://www.thebrain.com/products/thebrain/download/

Version 9.0.215 (Late Beta)

What's new in 9.0? View release notes.

Don't want the beta? We don't recommend it, but you can still get TheBrain 8.

My concern about recommending that new users adopt TB9 while it is still in Beta is that the bugs we are still finding may actually be quite frustrating and discouraging for them, which I would think is NOT the desired objective. I myself am a huge fan of TheBrain and, in spite of this, I've not yet felt comfortable putting my eggs in TB9 basket.

I hasten to add, I can easily imagine TB staff and engineers want to focus on the development of TB9 and not necessarily increase the demand for support for TB8. However, I personally would want our new users to have the best, and most reliable brain experience possible....and for me that would be using the proven reliability of TB8 with a reliable and trustworthy webbrain sync.

Otherwise, our newest potential customers are going to saddled with having to troubleshoot (or work around) issues that are still emerging "in the wild" -- and I'm not sure that is where we ideally want our newbies to start.

Just a thought shared from out 'in the wild"....

[smile]

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mcaton
Russ,

We'd also like to see your Output.log file after getting the error.  Output.log will be located one directory above where you found the Error Report files.

Are the 7 thoughts in your selection box all related in any way (group of child Thoughts?)  or are they located in different locations within your Brain?  

Thank you,
Matt Caton
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rustyedges
I believe 4 were all child thoughts, the others were in same general area of brain.  my output.log only shows events as of yesterday?  assuming these are being rolled into /archive - I only see files back to the 8th, and this happened before then
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