metta Show full post »
metta
Thanks for checking in, Matt. I provided more specific details in our current help ticket.

The short answer is that the content I lost in two of the V9 brains had been previously synced with another installation on my notebook computer, and I was able to retrieve the missing content there.

However, I have no idea how many other notes may have disappeared in the 5 small test brains that were open during the time this known data loss occurred.

I only noticed 2 missing notes in 2 different brains, at which point, I feverishly began moving and saving my content elsewhere.

Once my content had been archived outside of TB9, I completed the sync with my notebook brain, and now the content is lost there, too.
Quote
metta
Update

Unfortunately it looks like the conflict between TB9 and WebRoot still has not yet been resolved. Speed is still impossibly slow (after having initially appeared to be better), so I'm going to have to do more troubleshooting with WebRoot tech support.

Will share another update after I have a chance to work with them again.
Quote
Harlan
Hi metta,

I'm glad to hear that you found the cause of the slow speed.

With regard to the problem you had with your notes, I will check the details with the support team on your ticket. We do not know of any issues similar to what you describe. However since your machine was performing so poorly, is it possible that you just had not synced the note and then made changes on the empty note, causing it to overwrite the original note? That would explain what you are seeing. Whenever changes are made, the most recent change wins, even if other changes were made in the meantime. The scenario would be:
  1. On machine A, add a note to thought 1 and sync it.
  2. On machine B, sync does not work since the machine is running extremely slowly.
  3. On machine B, the note on thought 1 is still empty since it has not synced.
  4. On machine B, a change (such as typing a space or pressing enter on the note) is made to the same note on thought 1. Or a note on thought 1 is entered and then deleted as part of testing.
  5. Machine B starts working again.
  6. Sync machine B.
  7. Sync machine A. The note on thought 1 disappears.
If the above steps are what happened, that is totally as expected.
Regards,
-Harlan
Quote
metta
Thanks for your prompt feedback, Harlan.

Regarding the speed/performance issues: Unfortunately, yesterday's fix on the WebRoot corruption issue did NOT solve the slow speed issue with TB9. Part of the challenge in diagnosing this issue is that sometimes TB9 will perform relatively smoothly right after it is launched, but then it will gradually slow down so much that it becomes completely unusable. When WebRoot is turned off, TB9 seems to perform as designed, so this is going to require additional work with WebRoot tech support to resolve the conflict between WebRoot and TB9.

Regarding the lost notes: As I explained in my help desk ticket, there were actually 2 different notes that disappeared in 2 different brains.
  • One of the notes was in a brain that I was not even working in, the note itself had not been edited in weeks, and the brain had not been synced with another machine in weeks, so how this note disappeared remains a complete mystery to me.

  • As for the other note that was lost, it had been created days before and had previously been synced successfully with my notebook computer (also on another day), so the same content was located on both computers before it disappeared from my desktop brain.
  • -- On the day this note disappeared from my desktop brain, I didn't do any syncing between my desktop and notebook computers. In addition, all my syncing (with the web client only) is done manually (never automatically), so there's no chance a sync occurred unbeknownst to me.
  • -- I also didn't move to and edit the brain on my notebook, so there was no chance of another edit made elsewhere overwriting the note in question.
  • -- At the time this note disappeared, I was creating new thoughts and adding in other new notes, so there was virtually no chance that I accidentally deleted the content in the note without realizing it.

Also, it is important to remember that when both of these notes disappeared, WebRoot was turned OFF and there were NO speed or performance issues with TB. Hence, my concern that this data loss was related to a problem inherent in TB9.
Quote
metta
Lost Notes Update

Just now checked the web brain, and discovered the lost note (from the TB9 test brain I was working in) was still in the web client, much to my surprise, since it wasn't visible previously in either the desktop or notebook brains. Decided to sync again (even though the triangle said each brain was up-to-date), and the previously "lost" note from the web client downloaded into BOTH brain installations. Lost note is now BACK again.

The missing note from the brain I was NOT working in remains lost -- in the desktop brain, the web client and the notebook brain.

I remain as mystified as ever....
Quote
metta
Slow Performance Update: Good news!

I am cautiously optimistic that the conflict between TheBrain8/TheBrain9 and WebRoot may at long last be resolved.

After ongoing (futile) attempts to troubleshoot TB9 speed and performance issues at my end, I finally asked WebRoot to white list both versions of TheBrain (8 & 9), and this change seems to have resolved many (if not all) of the slowdowns, freezes and crashes I've been experiencing with TB9 over the last several months.

Time will tell if this is a permanent fix, but I must say it has been a huge relief to be able to begin using TheBrain9 on a daily basis, and even to see improved performance in TheBrain 8.

(Pretty good Christmas gift, actually!) [smile]

I do have one follow-up question, though, for TB staff:
> When I asked WebRoot support if each new release of TB9 would need to be white listed, they said:
-- If the hashes for the files change, we may need to continue to white-list new files.

Given how new alpha versions of TB9 are now being released, does this mean ongoing white listing will be necessary or not?

As for the lost notes mystery, at this point I'm going to assume (with crossed fingers) this was just a strange one-off anomaly. I'll do my best to watch carefully as I add and sync new content into my test brains and, if I run into any additional issues with data disappearing in the future, hopefully it will be easier to resolve without all the WebRoot complications.

Looking forward now to a new year, a fresh start and moving forward with my V9 testing!
Quote
mcaton
A grand update!  Thank you Metta and Happy Holidays.  Thank you for your patience and your willingness to share.  We'll certainly document your experience with WebRoot to share with others that may experience these issues. I'll see if I can reach out to WebRoot myself as well.  I don't *think you'll need to relist with updates, but please keep us posted!

Thanks,
Matt
Quote
metta
Thank you, Matt, for your kind and positive feedback. I regret that coming up with this solution took so much time and effort for you and the engineering team, but I do hope this discovery will be of help to others.

I also really appreciate your offer to reach out to WebRoot. I'll check with customer support at WebRoot now to see if they can recommend a point of contact for your follow-up.
Quote
metta
Matt ~

I'm also optimistic that if this compatibility/white-listing issue can be adequately addressed now, then hopefully it won't continue to be an issue later on for other brain users! ;-)

FWIW, I think part of the problem might (?) be that WebRoot works by monitoring activity on the computer rather than scanning computer files themselves. I suspect this means WebRoot was constantly scanning everything I tried to do in TB (in spite of the fact that I had activated "allow" settings for both TB8 & TB9).

In any case, getting TheBrain white-listed with WebRoot really was a major milestone for me -- and I'll be sure to let you know if WebRoot customer support can recommend a point of contact for your follow-up.
Quote
metta
Matt ~ 

Here's the feedback I just now received from WebRoot support, if you'd like to follow-up with them to discuss compatibility between TheBrain and WebRoot's antivirus protection system:

They can follow-up by contacting us at 866-612-4227 or by submitting a support ticket through the site just as you have done: https://www.webrootanywhere.com/servicewelcome.asp

Hope this helps, Matt. I'll be interested in your feedback if there are any additional developments or updates.
Quote
metta
Matt ~

Here's one more bit of feedback I just now received from WebRoot support:

Thank you for doing that (sharing their phone # and URL with you). We can try to build some rules if possible to avoid potential conflict with future builds. It will be necessary to get a full set of logs from their most recent (or upcoming) release for us to do so.

Hope this will be helpful in preventing future conflicts between TheBrain and WebRoot. 
Quote
metta
Matt, I just now updated TB9 to the latest version (239), and it slowed down to a crawl all over again.

I've since contacted WebRoot support (again) to ask them to white-list the current version, and i'm hoping this will take care of the problem as it did in the past.

In the meantime, is there anything that can be done by way of coordination between TheBrain and WebRoot to automatically white-list future versions of TB9 so I won't have to contact them and make this request every time a new version is released?

My thanks in advance for any help you can provide.
Quote
metta
Update: WebRoot white-listed TB9 again, and speed issues were immediately resolved.
Quote
mcaton
Metta,

Great! Thanks for the update.  We'll see if this is a process that they would be willing to automate for each release...

Thanks,
Matt
Quote
metta
Thanks so much, Matt! Very much appreciate your help in attempting to automate white-listing for future releases.

Will look forward to any updates you can share on this in the days ahead....
Quote

Add a Website Forum to your website.

Newsletter Signup  Newsletter        Visit TheBrain Blog   Blog       Follow us on Twitter   Twitter       Like Us on Facebook   Facebook         Circle Us on Google+  Google         Watch Us on Youtube  YouTube       

TheBrain Mind Map & Mindmapping Software     Download TheBrain Mind Mapping Software