b4l4nc3r
I want to be able to use the feature "Crawl Brain and Modify Selection" to select all the visible thoughts in the active brain. That's very useful, because it allows me to select the thoughts I want to export much more easily, than currently the case when it involves a HUGE AMOUNT of thoughts with COMPLEX branching, which is most of the time.

This feature was already suggested in another form before -mostly for the same reason as me-, but was dismissed by Harlan as completed with a suggestion that seems like a workaround at best for the cases I -probably other users too- have in mind. The suggestion was made over here: http://thebrain.uservoice.com/forums/4597-thebrain/suggestions/124759-select-and-export-to-new-brain-sitebrain-all-vis?ref=title . I'm -and maybe the others are too- easily talking  about 100's to 1000's of thoughts in complex thought-branches, so the current method is not really encouraging the user to exports & share online, because it's a very tedious job without this feature to make the selection easier.

Please add a checkbox in the above mentioned feature to allow this suggested feature.

Please vote for it over here: http://thebrain.uservoice.com/forums/4597-thebrain/suggestions/691290-add-visible-thoughts-to-the-selection-pane
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b4l4nc3r
Expanding on my example "100's to 1000's of thoughts in complex thought-branches" -we're talking only about the visible thoughts for a reason- imagine that I want to add a specific amount of child thoughts of a particular thought -hence not all, which is a lot of the time- and then imagine that sub-scenario times fifty (x50), then it should be easy to see that the current "Crawler"-options is just not good for this job. Creating an expanded view of the thoughts I want to export, is the perfect way to export the thoughts I've in mind, AND expand or decrease the amount in accordance to my brain's evolution! This way stimulates me to update my partial exported brain's published SiteBrain online! I can switch between saved expanded views, check whether I want to add or remove anything -and do it like I'm used to- then just select all the visible thoughts again with the suggested feature, and voila! I'm good to go to export them!

One could further elaborate on my example-expansion and suggest that I mark all the thoughts I don't want to be exported as private in addition to Dys's workaround, but that's not correct, they're not all private! I just don't want to export certain thoughts in one export, but do export them in another export. For example for the difference between an Intranet SiteBrain and an Online unprotected one, in the sense without an authorization mechanisms. And the current crawler still wouldn't allow the user to do the job easily without a lot of manual selections or de-selections. I'm really talking about "100's to 1000's" of thoughts. This feature is a "must have" to stimulate what the PB team's statement says on the application: "Got 100,000 Thoughts you want to organize?" assuming they mean it like I understand and want it -and like I believe it means grammar-wise- meaning in a single brain! Otherwise there is simply a conflict in their public statements and their actual strategy of implemented features. So far it's really robust, true to it's words, and very lovable! I hope it remains that way, and keeps surprising us delightfully, like we're used to.
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b4l4nc3r
For those whom read a lot more than what you see now, you may request a copy from me to get what actually was going on (long-live offline mode!), before everything was deleted by the invisible hands.
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b4l4nc3r
In addition, I want to point out that I'm aware that one could suggest to be able to export expanded views instead of having to activate one and then select the visible thoughts, but I deliberately didn't suggest that, because I don't want to be forced to save expanded views to export the visible thoughts which I want to decided on the fly sometimes without thinking about how to select them exactly, and just send the zip to a stranger on the fly, without having to keep track which view I've sent. Although personally I might choose to keep track, I don't want to be forced to use a temporary expanded view to export.

And that kind of selection is very handy to add or remove links from a bunch of complexly related thoughts to or from particular thoughts!
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b4l4nc3r
Btw, I use an accelerator to invoke the Crawler! So all that remains after that, is to check the "Select visible Thoughts" checkbox, and click OK. Or even better, it might as well be a single button that includes that OK function! So I activate the Crawler accelerator, and just click on that button, and voila, I'm in heaven , I mean the heaven of this particular case

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b4l4nc3r
Hmm.... maybe I'm underestimating how heavy such a big selection is on the needed resources. PB team, or technical wizes out there, any brighter idea's?
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b4l4nc3r
I've just used the Reports tab to add over 3000 Thoughts to the selection-pane, and counting 4000+, and counting ... over 5000 Thoughts! And I can still move around in the expanded view, but that only contains about 15 Thoughts for this test.

Deducing from this test from a user's point of view, that means adding to the selection pane is not where the CPU will be getting bogged  down, so the selection using my suggestion won't be a problem! The expanded view would only be limited by the amount of continuous CPU utility the algorithm of the expanded view needs until it stops moving for the love of life! Given situations like mine in which there is amply enough RAM, but that would limit how far you can take PB anyway, so I don't think it's a factor for my suggestion.

Meaning I don't see a performance penalty for my suggestion to be used. All that remains is for this feature to be implemented so that I can select exactly the thoughts I've in mind without going through the tedious exercise of finding out what hell is, so to speak -and by a subjective experience-, on every SiteBrain update. Anyone care to elaborate without being banned (not by me)?

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zenrain
I think for the purpose intended of tracking thoughts to upload to a sitebrain, the easiest way to do it as things stand right now would be to tag any thoughts that you export to the SiteBrain.

I'll start by saying that up front it would be time consuming to set up, but maintenance wouldn't be too much work. You would have to add the tag for each new thought you create that you want added, and this could be done either doing that as you go, or run a created by date report, choose Add Report Results to Selection, and then de-select any ones you don't want uploaded before you set the tag.
You could also choose to have the tag be invisible for your regular workflow.

If you are uploading to your WebBrain you would then:
1. On the Reports tab choose All > Tags > [Your Tag]
2. Choose Edit > Add Report Results to Selection
3. Right-Click the selection and choose Copy Selected Thoughts
4. Open the brain you use to create brainzips and upload.
5. Right-click and paste the thoughts and overwrite old data if necessary.
6. Upload to the WebBrain as normal.

If you are exporting to a Sitebrain you would then:
1. On the Reports tab choose All > Tags > [Your Tag]
2. Choose Edit > Add Report Results to Selection
3. Choose File > Export > SiteBrain HTML
4. Verify Only Export the Selection is checked.
5. Click [Ok].
6. Continue publishing the sitebrain as normal.

Elegant? Not especially. Functional? Yes, I do this myself with a sub-brain that I export, create a brainzip, and make available to others.
Windows 7
J-1.6.0_22
--
OSX 10.6.3
Java SE 6
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b4l4nc3r
First let me thank you for your extensive reply! I started with that, because I disagree that your described approach is the way to go.

Aside the Boolean on the elegancy, that approach seems like another workaround, don't you agree?

It's just too much work, that's not what PB should be expecting the users to do. I've to assign individual tags per specific export! This seems to put pressure on the user to limit the amount of specific exports, not particularly shouting "I'm thinking about the future".  And there will be overlap between individual exports, and all of those assigned tags will be visible next to the Thoughts. They're visible because -next to other users- I too find it handy to see which tags are assigned to a Thought. The Tag aspect is simply not intended to be used like this. It should be used to refine a Thought, not overload it with useless information only meant for export Thought groupings.

The feature I'm requesting doesn't seem difficult to implement, right? Nor does it require much GUI work. In contrast it saves the user a considerable amount of work, noticeable reflected on the time and energy the user has to invest to keep different groups of customers/fans/readers updated with a SiteBrain update. And at the same time encourages healthy best practices. That, on top of the aleternative ability to select thoughts I want to add to or remove links from a specific thought, which I've wished for in at least a couple cases on the fly, by the intuitiveness of the move on those particular moments.

I mean picture that you don't have to maintain your tags like that anymore! Isn't that a relief? It should feel like getting a big rock off your shoulders. It seems you were forced to create this type of tagging habit, that I hope it would become obsolete, because it's not healthy. But you're trying to be helpful, and it puts other users thoughts which agree with your workaround in perspective to mine, that's why I really appreciate your input. We should be careful not to adopt practices that are not healthy for the integrity and usefulness of our digital brains, but instead take our long-term thinking to the next level by collaborating with the developers of the applications we rely so heavily on.

I'm only talking about the selection sequence of steps. I think the following sequence is all we need to select the visible thoughts:
1. Invoke the Crawler by an accelerator. (already possible)
2. Check the NEW checkbox or click on the button "Select Visible Thoughts". (the only required addition!)
3. In case they implement it as a checkbox instead of a button, which adds that total of steps to 3 instead of only two, then we just click OK.

I believe that should be how it's best to do it, within the current context of available PB features. If we could just get a feedback how much work it is for the PB development team, then we would have a better perspective on what we're actually asking them. I believe my suggestion is easy from anyone's point of view, expect those that have adopted a workaround, which seems like their home now and are nostalgic about it or might feel they wasted their time,  or have other use cases in mind.

Users with your workaround don't have to migrate to start using my suggestion, but I bet that users whom use a big central brain and  haven't shared yet because of this complexity between what's possible to easily export and what we want to export, and how much work it takes, will definitely appreciate this feature. Especially new users! Everyone will take this feature for granted, just like the Tags. And the Tags then may remain clean. I believe it's win-win. The new, the old, and most exception cases. Everyone happy but it's possible that I'm missing something that someone else does see. I'd gladly engage on those thoughts too.

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zenrain
No worries, my post wasn't intended to say your suggestion had no value or that this is the cleanest way to do it, it was simply to provide input on a workaround (as you noted) until a more elegant way is implemented.

The downside of your suggestion is that we would have to have our thoughts visible to select them. This itself could be considered a workaround. However, the upside is it provides another way of selecting all our thoughts, and together with saved views could lead to several other workflow scenarios.

Another possible way to implement would be to add a checkbox on the thought, possibly under Details or Properties & Attachments . Any thought with the box checked would automatically be synchronized to WebBrain, or exported to a Sitebrain when we do an export. This would require a bit of work on the front end also, but once implemented would be a one-step export process, no selections required. We should be allowed to set the default of the checkbox as either a checked or unchecked state on new thoughts (reducing maintenance a bit).

Just another way to slice the pie.

Windows 7
J-1.6.0_22
--
OSX 10.6.3
Java SE 6
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b4l4nc3r
Thanks for the update

If you really like that addition you've talked about, you should put it in a separate thread, because otherwise this thread would be ambigious. What would it mean if the suggestion got votes, which one should then be implemented? The "a checkbox per thought" idea isn't flexible at all, because with it you create only a single export group. With the Extended views you can have unlimited ones while reusing the view, since the user uses the views to look at the brain through the audience's perspective to link thoughts and work on the evolution of the to be exported view. And it's way more intuitive. I still don't see a better way. If this feature is implemented the management of the saved Extended view will have to be enhanced to included multiple sub-categories, but I remember that I've already requested that in another thread. And besides, that had to be done anyway, since it shouldn't be limited like this.

Creating saved extended views is just for the reoccurring exports, and it's way easier than maintaining tags. And you always have them visible, in your case it's in the Reports tab. You can keep doing that you know. You're hiding the tags so that they're not visible next to the thoughts right? Are you using tags for anything else than only exports? You know, like adding characteristics to the Thoughts with common aspects that adds next to the Thought types and for which it's better not to use links for to reduce the link overload?

All the ways of slicing the pie are not equal, definitely not in all cases. We're trying to figure out how to get the job done for the use case we both mentioned, using the best way, and are not looking for diversity as the main objective. I've used the diversity card as a second argument. I believe you've a reason for suggesting a checkbox per thought, besides having second thoughts on activating a view before adding the thoughts to the selection-pane, so please do elaborate on that with more arguments, if you will. Let me know
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b4l4nc3r
Just to clarify for others that didn't read all the replies in this thread, when I'm talking about saved Extended views, I'm using that to make my case that selecting the visible Thoughts primarily to export them can be used in combination with the Extended view to create a powerful combination, and benefiting from the ability of being able to select only the visible thoughts for other use cases.
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b4l4nc3r
Ah, one of the other use cases -which for this thread in my view get a secondary priority- are assigning Tags or Thought Types only to the visible Thoughts no matter how complexly they're linked and even if they're not linked at all, and without having to select all of them manually! This will be possible by selecting the visible thoughts easily using the requested feature in my first comment, and then assigning the attributes through the context menu of the selection-pane. Now that's also very useful!

This new feature will make it possible to think like: "These are the Thoughts I'm thinking about, and I want to do the following with them!" much more flexibly, whether ad-hoc (just find what you're looking in any view! Whether normal and then expanded or Extended and then expanded or even the Outline view. Without having to do anything else) or repeatedly (mostly to export and keep it up to date, with the additional easy step of changing to the Extending view and adjusting if needed and then saving it). If I was only able to share my consciousness about it like in the Matrix, people would get its immense powerful freedom instantly. Not just value.
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