nal
I am about to give up and leave TheBrain behind. Unless someone has some suggestions, I have to move on. Performance on my v8 brain became very slow, then links starting disappearing, my upgrade to v9 didn't give me the 30 day pro for my proof of concept demo, the upgraded/converted brain still had the disappearing links, and it couldn't import my brainzip backups from v8 (in case I turned something like filtering on and couldn't find how to turn it off). Any thoughts on disappearing links? Is v9 unstable? Better performing?

I had come back to TheBrain after a long absence for a perfect application - create an abstract model of a complex data model in a COTS application, for understanding and validating the data model, maintenance and enhancement, and integration with project data - issues, relationships to data sources, external references for methods and training, and a bunch more. I spent a good deal of the day creating a proof of concept for my program manager. But,

I started seeing links disappear. The thoughts (and the links) were still there - I could find them in search and if I started at the top of the brain and navigated down, or whenn I recreated the relationship (the link types and link data came back too without re-entering). But then when I came back to certain thoughts, the links were gone again. After searching the forums, I found this was a problem in v.5.x but never saw a resolution. After numerous restarts, and coming back the next day (give TheBrain a good night's sleep), same situation.

Ok, maybe my version 8 just got too old and decrepit. I will upgrade to v.9 with the 30 day Pro capabilities - if my PM likes it, I will buy it for the team. But now a bunch of new (and old) problems. First, it doesn't give me Pro, so I am going lose my links and some other stuff I wanted to demo. Still has the missing link problem in the upgraded brain. I fiddle around more.  Running out of time - I deleted that brain and imported a brainzip from yesterday when it definitely was working. The import doesn't really work after various issues popping up with the import and initial use.

Nice tool. Seems to be the only one of its kind, much better than mind map tools. But I can't afford the issues (and the potential instability if that is the problem).
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nal
(I should have posted this to support first) 
Update: Support recommended a database rebuild to address the disappearing/reappearing links.
I will try that and post here.
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vmilhoan
I have been using TB9 since they first released the initial Beta. There are lots of things that frustrate me, mostly related to features I feel like I've lost making the migration (I'm able to mostly work around them and my work flow is pretty good right now). But I haven't experienced the missing link issue you've talked about. Hope your database rebuild works.
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nal
Update: Resolved, and Embarrassed. Support worked with me on the missing link issue with a lot of work trying different things. My fault - I thought I needed to click the One Way box on the link to get directionality, but that just blocked navigation the other way. Thanks Sean. Also, the performance on v9 does seem better. The Pro trial issue is resolved. I am still 'attached' to v8 though, but for now I will chalk that up to just getting comfortable with v9 (I've used it only a couple of days. I'll get on the forums again after some time with v9.
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shatcher
Hi Neal,

Glad to hear that you're up and running again. Just in case anybody else runs into this issue, arrows can be added to links without needing to click the "one way" check box. 

One-way means that the link will be visible only in one direction. If a link from A points to B and the one-way box is checked, then this link will not be visible when navigating from another Thought to B. To make things more confusing, A will still be visible if you navigate from A to B but not when going to B from any other Thought.

Sean
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mctrexler
I've had this problem in the past, and wish there were a way to see a list of ALL your one-way links at the same time, which would help you quickly see whether that's the source of your confusion, or a way to toggle all one-way links on and off temporarily. Because it is very easy to forget where you might have stuck a one-way link in.  I don't use them any more since they don't work in webbrain or web client - would be hugely valuable if they did!  

Mark
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nal
I am curious about how you (mctrexler) would use one-way links (i.e. links that allow you to navigate and see only one direction, but not back the other direction). Can you elaborate your use cases? I am using directionality to indicate the meaning of the relationship - Thought A allocates to >  Thought B, but as the thread indicates, I mistakenly thought One-Way link was required for that).

Some ideas: If there is a section of the model/map that needs to be off limits to one part of the organization. I work on large development projects, so I could see a prime contractor being able to see all parts of a map, but a subcontractor only being able to see some because of proprietary information, or because we want to scope out and extract for the sub. Or a business development or finance organization seeing a part of a map that the general broader organization should not see.

However, that doesn't explain why a BD or finance person or prime contractor cannot navigate back across that link from where she started originally. Either this use case is not correct, or the tool just does not implement that level of access controls (e.g. role based), which is understandable given that type of security architecture that would have to be incorporated down to the link level, possibly a huge architectural rewrite. However, being able to navigate from the 'protected' part of the model across a one-way link, but then not be able to go back, is not contextually consistent and confuses.

mctrexler or shatcher - use cases for One-Way link?
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mctrexler
Nal, you raise an interesting point and question.  In fact I have a lot of trouble figuring out the use case for 1-way links in a Brain that only I will have access to (the same goes for a typical Team Brain application).  When I've used them and then forgotten I've used them I've run into the problem you did. 

My use case is focused on the point you make re access control.  Not really in terms of limiting access to certain places, but in trying to reduce the fear factor of users entering a complex brain.  I would love to be able to send a user of the Climate Web (www.theclimateweb.org) a URL to go to a specific starting point in the Climate Web, and from there direct them to 10 places in the Climate Web of particular value to them (rather than expect them navigate through the 100,000 thoughts in the Climate Web.  Do I need one-way links for that?  No.  But what if want to send 100 different users such URLS, and direct them to different combinations of those 10 places, and I don't want each user to see that I've sent 100 other users to that spot (100 parent thoughts is disconcerting).  1-way links is the answer (it's an alternative to being able to do a "report" as you can on the TB8 desktop - which would be even more desirable in customizing an information package for a user. )  But that report function doesn't work in webbrain, and is gone entirely from TB9 (one of the biggest losses from TB8 to 9).  But of course 1-way links don't work in webbrain or web client either, so it is extremely difficult to reduce the "fear factor" of new users entering the Climate Web.  People panic in the face of too much information, but TB has not yet seen the value of helping solve this problem so that many more potential buyers will explore TB.  
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shatcher
I have a Brain where I schedule events. If it's a repeating event like a farmer's market, and I like it, I attach it to a Thought called "Again". This is jump linked to my "Events" Thought with a one way link. When I'm looking at "Again" I want to see the events so I can attach it and set the next date to go. But when I'm looking at my events, I don't want to see "Again" and it's children because it clutters up the plex.

I also don't have any other links to "Again" because it's intuitive for me. I think that I'd like to go to this event again, and immediately remember the Thought name.
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zenrain
I use one way links quite a bit also. I use it when generally when I have a situation where I want to see a specific thought and see the children as related. However, in normal context when I activate the child thought from somewhere else I don't usually need to see that parent in the normal context, so it would make the view cluttered. 

So highly context specific cases where I only want to see the relationship when I'm coming a things from a specific angle.

One example may be a company hierarchy. I want to see the employees under a manger when I click the manager, but usually I access the individual directly to see what I'm working on with them. So I'd use a one way link from manager to employee.
macOS 10.14.6
TheBrain 10.0.54
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metta
Definitely +1 for directional (one-way) links in the web client! Mark is right: this feature would make a HUGE difference in reducing the overwhelm factor for new visitors to TB9 web client.

+1 also for the option to identify all the one-way links within a brain.
- - - - - -
2 very simple use cases:
> Brain Index
-- Parent thought functions as an Index header with visible links to various child topics.
-- However, the parent (index) thought is NOT visible from the child thought.

> Update Log
-- Parent thoughts track days or months, documenting the addition of new content into a brain.
-- However, the parent (date) thought is NOT visible from the child thought.
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nal
Good use cases all. Thanks.

+1 also for a way to identify one-way links. If I have a lot of them, I might not remember some (as @mctrexler indicated too) and will wonder why it seems I cannot navigate a link that I swore I could before. In my initial issue, I actually thought the brain was corrupted and spent a lot of time trying different things to fix it (both in that brain and utilities and reinstalls/repairs). Even an indicator on the link that there is a one-way that cannot be navigated (clarification - if you are on the navigable side of the link, the directional arrow has a bar on its base as an indicator. The problem is it's not real noticeable especially to a first time user of that capability, and then on the blocked side of link, the link just isn't there). 

Regarding my suggestion above about isolating a section of the model for 'access controls' between organizations as well as the export to the webbrain - private thoughts might be a promising path, but that capability would need enhancement - e.g. being able to make thoughts private but visible for selected groups users or roles (not just me), or make some thoughts/parts of the brain private and visible for some group of users, and other parts of the brain private for other groups of users.

Maybe this or some other more granular level of access/visibility control is available in TeamBrain or Cloud  brain? In today's organization and security environments, more granular controls are needed.
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mctrexler
It occurs to me that a good idea would be to Tag the thoughts where one-way links are going, but that doesn't really help.  Just as easy and more useful would be to give them a unique color, so whenever you see that color it means there's a one way link involved.  

Mark
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metta
Colored thoughts/links might work in a private brain, but it would not be suitable in my public brain projects for several reasons:
> Thought colors are already assigned based on thought types.
> Link colors add another layer of visual complexity that I'd like to avoid in public brains (if at all possible), given the overwhelm factor that already exists in the web client interface.
> In addition, adding color to one-way links does not provide a way to search for and find specific one-way links.

Tagging thoughts might work, but only when we know what kind of visibility controls we are going to have on tags in the web client. Right now, tags display randomly -- and, as a result, they are quite problematic when used in public brain projects.

In light of this, an option to search-by-link-type would be, for my purposes, the best solution to this issue since various types could be assigned to a variety of different one-way links, and then later each type could be reviewed en masse using the search-by-link-type function.
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shatcher
We were actually just discussing this issue and documented a feature request for the ability to search for one-way linked Thoughts. I've added some of the ideas here onto that request.

-Sean
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