I've used TB10 (the latest versions for Windows) for the past month  (today is April 24, 2019.)  (I've used TB for over a decade.)  Here's my complaint.

Relative to TB8 (which I and others love),  operations in TB10 are SLOOOOWWWW.  (It's like watching a conversation between a US news anchor and a reporter in Syria.)  Here are some operations that I do all the time that are annoying.

TYPING NOTES:  a noticeable lag between a key press and the letter appearing in a note (less than a second, but TB 8 is instantaneous.  Compare it to the rtf-like editor in TB8)

CREATING a LINK by DRAGGING:  For example from a PINned thought down to a thought in the plex... it's laggy, herky/jerky  (whereas in TB8, it's instantaneous.)

UNLINKING by deleting a LINK... same as above... SLOOOOWWW.  It makes it painful to garden a large brain (pruning and re-arranging.)

(This is all on a beefy Skylake Win10 machine running nothing else.)

My guess is that Harlan and his team of engineers have accepted this as the price to pay for cross-platform compatibility (eg with cellphones.)  But... it is a cost to be borne in upgrading from TB8.  (Praying for future improvements.)

Bob Blum  (user since 2006; 21k megabrain)

Addendum:  The above is with my 21k megabrain.  In the past hour I did experiment with brains with a few dozen thoughts and the lag in dragging and deleting links seems less.  (So, perhaps some of the lag may be due to repeated animations of the plex as the mouse cursor moves over the plex. So, perhaps partially explicable but never a problem in TB8, no matter how bushy the plex.  Inner loops in the code may need to be tightened up.)

Addendum 2:  COPY to the clipboard is turned off for text in NOTES in Web Client?!!!?  (So, my visitors can't copy the notes in Web Client!)  That's a deal-killer for Web Client!
Thank you very much, Bob, for taking time to share these updates.

I'm very sorry to learn you've been having these performance issues on Win10, since I thought the comparable issues I was having might be related to the fact that I am still on Win7.

I also appreciate your notification about the issue with not being able to copy notes from the web client. I've added this to the list of web client bugs I am currently tracking -- and I can confirm that several months ago I documented the same problem in brains that are shared via email.

(FWIW, I also just now discovered that the default thought type labels are now visible in the web client, and we have no mechanism for deleting or hiding them as we can in TB8 webbrain.)

We're happy to look at your log file when you are experiencing the slow behavior to see if we can determine a cause.  There are a few simple settings in Options > Preferences > Look & Feel tab.  Uncheck the options for 'Compact window title bar' and 'Use ClearType to render text'

Additionally, on the Behavior tab, I feel that having 'Update displayed content on hover' seems to speed up my process.

Again, your log files may tell us more.

In regards to copying not content in the web client - keystroke operations should be working fine.  Select text and CTRL+C to copy to clip board.

Thanks, Matt,

Your suggestions did help!

1)  I went hog wild and turned off everything in Options>Preferences>  Look and Feel  (and also > Behavior.   Yes,  good speed up.  (But the subtext to those check boxes should be  ... is each of these so important to you that you're willing to pay the associated penalty in performance?   With a megabrain, the answer is... not worth it.)

2)  I also experimented with brains with only 6 thoughts... big speed up.  (So, clearly this is a performance bottleneck probably related to brain or displayed plex size.  I'm guessing that if optimization was easy, it would've been done already.)

3)  I just verified your suggestion... copying to the clipboard from the Web Client DOES work with control + C  (in Windows)... although  (as you may know) the usual pop up menu associated with right clicking the highlighted text is strangely absent.)

I need to mention that I really appreciate the responsiveness of the TB team to user feedback!  (Contrast that with the horror show that is Microsoft support.  For example,  here's  George  RR Martin (Game of Thrones)  appraisal of the last 40 years of Microsoft: 
  Don't miss this.  The bottom line:  he uses  Wordstar  4.0 on a DOS computer!)

Best wishes,  Bob 
Dragging from the BrainBox (I love it though) is kinda slow -- 14 seconds for the thought to pop up on the Plex; then, often I have to wait for the web page to appear, and copy the page title and add it to the thought label by opening the thought properties, takes a minute or more; sometimes, just copying the page title will cause the link to fill and show; problem is worse on Washington Post and New York Times pages; Guardian and others seem to usually work.  (Also hoping there will be a fix for the faulty share function for BrainBox in Washington Post iOS app -- I click a lot there, and have to either open page in Safari, or use Apple shortcut to save to BrainBox -- TB Support says it's a known issue.)

Changing thoughts in the plex is quite fast, less than a second (I'm on Windows 10, v1809 with 6 core AMD CPU and 16GB memory, NVIDIA displays, 3 monitors, 4700 thoughts, 6000 links.)

My preferences were already set as Matt suggested them to be.

Microsoft has support???!  I remember once five or ten years ago, I got some, but all I can ever find is lots of complaints of problems on Google, and various people suggesting fixes, but never someone from Microsoft jumping in and giving an answer.  🙂  Agree, Matt et al. on TheBrain are great at quick response.

Thanks for the video; Martin has sure turned out a lot of stuff on that DOS machine; guess he doesn't spend his time fussing with Windows like I've done so much of.

Bring back Lotus Agenda!

Hi Pat (PaddyVA),

BrainBox:  I'll bet you can speed it up a lot by unclicking ALL the options under Preferences>Options.  BUT - having played around with BrainBox - it seems to have a limited use case  (perhaps on a smartphone, where it's difficult to move between your search engine and TheBrain.  On a desktop machine with two monitors, it's just a lot easier to simply drag the new URL onto the plex.   (I also notice that BrainBox requires me to RE-login to TheBrain every time I move to another URL... a huge time sink.)

Changing thoughts in the plex... is ALWAYS FAST on my desktop machine.   My complaint was about CREATING a new LINK , eg by DRAGGING from a PIN to another thought in the plex  or gardening a large brain by trying to drag child thoughts around.

The main reason that Microsoft thrived for decades was because of their ABUSE of their MONOPOLY STATUS.  You're right ... they treat consumers like they don't exist.   (Contrast that with Amazon.  (When I call Amazon to return a (low-priced) product, they say "just keep the product, AND we'll give you your money back!"))

Good tools should disappear in the hands of the users.   (And, agree about Lotus)

Best wishes,  Bob
Thanks, Bob; I took a look at what I have checked now under Look and Feel and Behavior Preferences, and don't see any I'd be willing to give up, so don't know if unchecking would speed up drops from BrainBox.

As for creating a new link between a thought and a pin, or another thought, I find it is nearly instantaneous, less than half a second. Don't know if that's a result of size of your super brain, but suggest you send request to Support, if you haven't.

You are correct that adding to the BrainBox on Windows PC is more of a pain, because it demands that you first open TheBrain on the web -- even if TB is already running on the desktop.  (I just tried opening the BrainBox as a tab in the desktop Brain, and dropping link there, but it wouldn't respond to the drop.) So, for that reason, I don't use BrainBox to store from other windows on PC; would be easier, as you say, to just have an Inbox thought open in the Plex, and drop from another window in as a new child.

The beauty of the BrainBox is on iOS (and I assume, on Android too), where it is quick and easy to add links from other apps (except the Washington Post and New York Times), and it never says, "Wait, Open TB first!", and TB isn't running on the iPad or iPhone.  Most of my links are added from news or articles I'm reading on my iPad or iPhone.  (As I've written elsewhere, I really wish the BrainBox could be connected with IFTTT, which I use to automate shares to Evernote, Pocket, InstaPaper and my email, with one easy, fast two taps..

As for Lotus Agenda, I did another Google search to see if I'd missed anything new (no, I haven't), but came up with this old James Fallows article from 2009, where he bemoans the demise of Agenda, and others, but ends up saying TheBrain is maybe the best replacement available.  Still true, I think.

Back in 2013, there was a brief hope that a project between David Allen and Charles Simmonyi and International Software would create a new replacement for Agenda, but nothing ever happened.  I posted these comments and links back then to my Blog:

The "more" includes being chairman of a company, named Intentional Software, in Bellevue, WA, A year ago, they partnered with David Allen, author of "Getting Things Done" aka GTD, (GTD® and Getting Things Done® are registered trademarks of the David Allen Company.) The problem they seek to fix is that "Many GTD Enthusiasts today are constantly looking for new ways to incorporate applications and their numerous computing devices into their workflow." That's me, and maybe you too.
Unfortunately, they don't have the solution yet -- at least, I couldn't find it. So, I did a Tweet to the CEO, and hope I will be able to report some interesting things later. The tie-in here is to TheBrain software that I mentioned yesterday, which has the new version 8 beta now available for free download. (I can't stress enough that you need to take a look at TheBrain -- it could change the way you handle information for the rest of your life!)
Read more about Charles Simonyi and the GTD project at Intentional Software, TheBrain, and knowledge management at these locations:

Thanks, Pat.

TB speed issues:  I haven't yet sorted out which features I can retain without a cost penalty  (but I'm loving the new found speed obtained by switching off everything except double click to expand the plex.)

BrainBox:  Thanks.  That confirms my theory that it's  really designed for users of smartphones  (and has v v limited use for desktop machines.)

And thanks for the blast from the past about Charles Simonyi... what a guy! (twice visited the ISS.)  FWIW,  I had a lot of interactions with the Xerox PARC Alto/ Bravo crowd in the 1970s (while working on my PhD at Stanford.)  I see that Charles is now back at MSFT.)


PaddyVA wrote:
I took a look at what I have checked now under Look and Feel and Behavior Preferences, and don't see any I'd be willing to give up....
I agree, Pat.

In an ideal world, it would be great if we didn't have to choose between preferences (custom settings) and performance.
I sent a note (and a support request)  about TB10 performance to Matt C a couple of days ago. Here's an example of really slow performance that anyone can easily replicate .  (My remarks here and above are all about TB10 on a Windows desktop machine.)  1) SELECT a few hundred thoughts  (by putting them into the SELECTION BOX.)  2)  Do a COPY of all those thoughts (COPY ALL.)  3)  Try to PASTE them as children of some other thought  (in the same or another brain)... be prepared to WAIT a minute or more!!!  Is this unfair?  No:  these machines are designed to render thousands of polygons a second in video games!  That is,  TB10  badly needs code optimization (eg streamlining of inner loops.)
I just revised my BB workflow, in a way I think speeds up getting links from BB into the Plex:

- I created a BrainBox Intake thought under my Favorites thought, and pinned it.
- I created a new Type, BrainBox Intake, and assigned it to the BrainBox Intake thought (from Matt's comment elsewhere in Forum, it appears child thoughts should inherit Type, but not Tags)
- Now, with the BrainBox Intake thought selected, I can click on the BB to open it, and use the feature I just discovered, where hovering over a link in BB brings up four choices: + to create child thought; paperclip to attach; to open; and menu for commands; just click on the "+"
- As soon as I click the "+" choice for the link, I can now turn to the next link, without closing BB or dragging to the thought in the Plex, and similarly quickly add each one to the BrainBox Intake thought.
- Then, I can either link each of the new child thoughts to other thoughts in the Plex, or I can just go on to something else; the advantage is that now all the new thoughts are in the Search universe and can be discovered quickly, and I don't have to sit and drag and drop, with the delays before mentioned in this thread, to process them, and switch to each parent thought first where I want the new BB thought connected.  So, I can keep my BB clear quickly, and if the Type inheritance works as Matt described, then all those thoughts can be quickly found again, either by going to the BrainBox Intake thought, or the Type.

See attached screen shot of BB with options displayed when hover



Thank you for posting and sharing your process.


Our engineers are reviewing your test Brain that you delivered. It has been very helpful in testing and troubleshooting...

Thank you,
MacBook Pro
macOS Mojave - v10.14.4
Processor 2.3Ghz Intel Core i7
Memory 16GB 1600Mhz DDR3
Graphics NVIDIA GeForce Gt 750M 2 GB / Intel Iris Pro 1533 MB

Thought that I had enough of a computer to handle the Brain10 but I am having second thought.  It lags.  Also uses disk allot!  
Takes me back to the early versions.  I really thought that this was solved. 
Now thinking of buying a new MacBookPro, with whatever is the fastest processor.    
Brains are meant to go fast.   

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