mctrexler
If you look at this public Brain

https://webbrain.com/brainpage/brain/C00CB79D-B952-3F63-E801-80048C72FBC2#-56577 

you will see that almost none of the thoughts have the thought icons we originally created.  They simply have the icon associated with the news source they came from.  WHERE are the thought icons that were there when I synced from my desktop to this webbrain? 

Here's the conundrum.  It looks as if thoughts that I created on my computer and in my Brain transferred their thought icons successfully.  But most of the news stories were actually collected on another computer. Because TeamBrain has so many problems syncing thought icons from one computer to another, we stopped having my wife input thought icons on her machine and then syncing through TeamBrain. 

So now she creates a Brain just for the news stories (with the thought icons that are screenshots of the newstory).  She then zips and sends me that Brain.  I copy the thoughts (with thought icons) into my Brain.  I then sync my Brain to the webbrain.  So why aren't the thought icons syncing? 

Mark

Brain 8.0.2.0 (just installed - this note predates that)  
Java 8.0.45
Windows 7
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mctrexler
Some additional information:

1.  If I open the thought folder for one of the thoughts in my brain, "copy" the brain icon file, exit the thought folder, and "paste thought icon" for the same thought, the thought icon disappears from the thought entirely.  If I open the thought folder there is nothing there anymore (this is all on my desktop).  

1.  If I copy the brain icon file, paste it into a directory, copy it from the directory, and then "paste thought icon" for the same thought, I don't get a "replace thought icon message" but the image is somehow changed.  When I sync the Brain that thought icon now does show up in the webbrain version.  

So is there any trick to get the Brain when it syncs to actually recognize brain icon files that haven't literally been pasted as thought icons on my computer?  Obviously that shouldn't be necessary in TeamBrain, but TeamBrain has never synced correctly.  But I can't even paste thoughts into my Brain and have the thought icons recognized when I sync.  Jeez. 
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zenrain
Of the 8 thoughts I added this morning which had images captured as thought icons, 2 made it to my second computer after both had synchronized. The remainder have a TheBrainIcon.png of zero bytes. They do show correctly in WebBrain, I think this may be slightly different, I seem to remember them not making it to the WebBrain either when it's occurred before, but I could be mistaken.

Anyway, I hope this is resolved soon. 2 outta 3 may not be bad, but 1 out of 4? [wink]
macOS 10.14.6
TheBrain 11.0.119
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pthompson
If you are having trouble syncing, please contact support@thebrain.com as soon as possible rather than posting here. While it is nice to share these issues with others on the forums to see if it is something others are experiencing, we often do not notice these posts on our forums until later in the day and if there is an issue that is affecting syncing or anything important, it will get noticed and addressed much faster when you email support@thebrain.com. Thanks.

Regarding this issue:

We are looking into this and testing it on our end to try and replicate it and inform our engineers if it is an issue.

Some questions

How much time are you waiting between syncs on different machines? I've done a couple of different tests and have not noticed any issues with icons syncing.

My findings:

Syncing by myself - I've added an icon from our built-in icons, added one via Capture Thought Icon and added one from a custom icon on my machine. All icons are syncing to the same Brain on another machine without any issues.

Syncing using TeamBrain - We are noticing some issues with some icons not appearing in a local copy of a TeamBrain on another person's machine. We are reporting this issue so or engineers can look into it.

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mctrexler
This is an issue that has been around for a long time, and extensively documented in the past.  Extensively discussed with support in the past.  Because we work with hundreds of thought icons via TeamBrain we've always seen it much more clearly that probably most do. In some ways I guess I'm really just looking for moral support on the forums, because I don't expect the problem to actually get solved.  At this point I'm sure the answer will be "wait for Brain 9." 

What Zenrain mentions is the typical problem with TeamBrain.  Thought icons added on one computer get transferred to webbrain, but do not sync to the other TeamBrain computer.  Because we have 1 "master" TeamBrain, and the thought icons were being added on the "remote" TeamBrain and then synced, that was a problem because many of them just didn't make it to the "master" Brain.

We THOUGHT we'd get around that by first having the "remote" computer not actually put all of the thoughts and thought icons into the TeamBrain, but instead into a separate Brain that would then be zipped and sent to me.  I would then copy and paste all of those thoughts into my master TeamBrain before syncing.  We had assumed that the thought icons would all sync at least to the Webbrain, if not to the remote TeamBrain. 

It turns out they don't.  The thoughts copy and paste into the TeamBrain just fine, with all the thought icons as they should be, but when the TeamBrain syncs with the webbrain the thought icons never show up in the webbrain (so they obviously don't show up on the "remote" TeamBrain either). 

I spent hours yesterday going to the URLs in the couple hundred new thoughts and capturing new thought icons, replacing the thought icons previously in the thoughts.  As soon as I replaced the thought icons and synced, everything showed up in the webbrain just fine.  The problem of course is that the whole point of TeamBrain that I wouldn't have to do all of this by myself.  As of now I have no idea how the person with the "remote" TeamBrain can do thought icon work.  Maybe have her sync them to webbrain so they'll show up there, AND copy and paste them all directly into my Brain so they'll show up there.  What happens when I then sync is still an open question. 

Mark


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pthompson
mctrexler wrote:
because I don't expect the problem to actually get solved.  At this point I'm sure the answer will be "wait for Brain 9." 


I'm sorry you feel this way, but it is definitely not the case. We are actively looking into the issue but, unfortunately, there are so many factors involved in why this could be happening so it takes quite a bit of time to investigate something that involves syncing and an issue that does not seem to be affecting everyone.

One thing I will always recommend is making sure every person that is working on a Brain together is using the latest version of TheBrain and the latest version of Java. I've reported everything mentioned in this thread so far and will be discussing it with our engineers.
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zenrain
Sorry, I didn't email support on this because I've seen the issue in the forums before, and have been told it's being worked on. I assumed you didn't need any further information because it's been going on for a while now. I'll email support and include log files, since I don't think I've shut down TB since the thoughts were created and synchronized.
macOS 10.14.6
TheBrain 11.0.119
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mctrexler
Now just for fun we did something we haven't done in a while, which is create 10 thoughts on the "remote" TeamBrain and try to sync them directly.  Lo and behold, ALL the thought icons came through to the Master TeamBrain.  That is very puzzling, because as noted above we'd given up long ago on that ever working reliably (as noted by Zenrain). 

The latest Release Notes for 8.0.2 make a reference to fixing a syncing problem of some kind.  Is it possible that that fix targeted the thought icon syncing problem (it's hard to tell from the Release Notes exactly what was being fixed). If so that would be great news! 

If not, then I'm puzzled.  We'll keep testing. 
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pthompson
Mark, as I mentioned, we did notice some slight discrepancies with icon sync but it was under a vary particular scenario and wasn't happening when we were making standard thought and icon changes. I'm curious to know if the update improved your results any.


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zenrain
Ok, I've been watching this for patterns for quite a while now. Here's what I've noticed:
  • I never have a problem with icons not syncing when creating a new thought and adding an icon using the Thought tools tab.
  • If I duplicate a thought with an icon already attached, the icon doesn't sync on the new thought. I only do this on one thought, but it's on a weekly basis and I've always had to go in and manually set the icon. I'm not sure how I originally added the icon.
  • If I create a thought and apply a thought type which has it's own icon and then I capture a thought icon, sometimes a blank file is synchronized rather than the captured thought icon. It may only occur if I assign the thought type before an automatic sync, and then capture the thought icon after the automatic sync, but I'm not sure.
macOS 10.14.6
TheBrain 11.0.119
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mctrexler
Thanks Zenrain, you pointed me to a problem I hadn't even considered.  As it happens I duplicated 16 thoughts with thought icons yesterday (I don't normally do that). Looking just now 4 of them synced - 12 did not.   There is no "empty file" or anything, there's just no thought icon at all. 

The problem we're continuing to grapple with is the TeamBrain issue, and it's close to your "never have a problem case."   It looks right now as if 25% of the thought icons my wife adds at her end of the TeamBrain to brand new thoughts don't find their way to my end of the TeamBrain.  They make it into the Webbrain, but not to my copy of TeamBrain.  There's an empty file there, but no actual icon.  I'm careful to delete that file first, then re-do the thought icon, but have assumed it would then sync.  I need to keep an eye on that. 

Unfortunately a 25% general TeamBrain failure rate, and a 75% failure rate for duplicated thoughts, is a real problem.  Maybe this discrepancy of rates will provide TheBrain with some clues!

Mark

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zenrain
How does your wife add the thought icons? I've noticed when I use the + sign on the Thought tools tab and browse to a file, that's when I don't have issues. If I paste a thought icon, or capture one, all bets are off. [smile]
macOS 10.14.6
TheBrain 11.0.119
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mctrexler
I did mean to ask what you mean by the Thought Tools tab.  Not sure what you're referring to with that or the "+" sign. Our thought icons are almost all screen shots of one sort or another, so there is no "browsing to the file" opportunity.  But I should understand what you mean!

Thanks,
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zenrain
Sorry, this is what I meant:
Screen Shot 2015-10-02 at 11.38.25.png 
macOS 10.14.6
TheBrain 11.0.119
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mctrexler
Huh.  I had no idea one could go through the icon menu to "capture icon."   I wonder if there is anything different between that "capture icon" and "capture thought icon" in each thought's drop down menu.  I sort of doubt it, but will have my wife go that route for adding her next set of thought icons.  We'll See! 
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